Babbles Nonsense
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Babbles Nonsense
Empowering Women with Less Lethal Security with Luke McLaughlin
#155: Could a pepperball launcher be the key to self-defense without fatal consequences? Join us as we uncover the world of non-lethal self-defense options with Luke McLaughlin, the visionary owner and CEO of Less Lethal Security. Luke's transition from construction to the realm of personal safety technology is both intriguing and inspiring. His collaboration with Byrna Technologies has led to the empowering women by offering effective defense without the lethal risks associated with firearms.
My conversation with Luke delves into the pressing issue of personal safety, particularly for women facing the challenges of living in today's society. We examine the legal landscape around age restrictions for carrying firearms and the distinct advantages of non-lethal alternatives. Through personal stories and expert insights, we discuss the importance of responsible usage and training to ensure safety and confidence in self-defense scenarios. Luke sheds light on the societal perceptions of firearms versus non-lethal tools, emphasizing the need for accessible and effective self-defense options.
In the final segment, we highlight Luke's commitment to community support and his generous initiative to aid victims of domestic violence. His Alabama-based store, Less Lethal Security, not only provides a retail experience but also serves as a beacon of hope for women seeking protection. The discussion wraps up by exploring the complexities of operating a non-franchise business and navigating societal skepticism, all while maintaining a focus on safety and empowerment. Don't miss this insightful episode that challenges traditional notions of self-defense and celebrates the power of non-lethal solutions.
Find Luke here:
https://www.lesslethalsecurity.com/
https://www.facebook.com/LessLethalSecLLC?checkpoint_src=any
https://www.instagram.com/lesslethalsecurityllc/
(256) 998-3018
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What is up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense podcast. On today's episode we have Luke McLaughlin. He is the owner and CEO of Less Lethal Security here in town. Out of all of the men that I've interviewed, I believe I want to say like don't quote me on this that this is the first male owned business that we have interviewed on this podcast. And it's not that I'm not trying to interview male owned businesses, but we just you know the podcast started around female owned businesses, but the real reason I wanted to highlight his business is because it is for less lethal ways for women to protect themselves. So in this interview we discuss everything from the development of his business, his training that he offers, the product that he he sells and just the significance of sharing this less lethal defense for women and men. But his goal and objective was to get this out to the public for women, but also his knowledge about the products with the public.
Johnna:So listen in to our interview to gain a deeper understanding of less lethal security and the burn of technology behind it. Here we go, guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense Podcast. Today is a little different. I know I typically don't have men on here, but I met Luke. He was a contractor that came out to my house when I was having all the house issues and he started talking to me about his new business that he was starting, which is Less Lethal Security, where he has these gun-type things which we're going to get into because I can never explain them. But yeah, welcome Luke to the show.
Luke:Thanks.
Johnna:All right, luke, I start every episode out with just who you are, the background that you are, because people need to know who you are and why you started this business which I know. Like I said I was mentioning in the intro. I typically it's like my podcast started out where I interview female-owned businesses, but I wanted to interview your business because it is female related in a way which we're going to get into. So kind of, tell us your background, who you are, what you do and why you developed this less lethal security where to start.
Luke:Well, we met, like you said, as a contractor. I've been dealing with less lethal stuff for about three years now. Okay, so, training law enforcement with it, selling law enforcement. About a year and a half ago I started doing with my construction company, started doing a lot of stuff with realtors, listening to some of the things they've dealt with when showing homes. I'd mentioned it to them then and it just kind of built off of there. Off of there. You know more and more realtors. Hey, one of my friends said that they got this from you.
Johnna:I want one now when you say this. So you got to remember people, don't? They're just meeting you for the first time, so before we jump into like what less lethal is. So you mentioned being in construction background, so how long have you done construction? My? Whole life, your whole life.
Luke:So like from from the time my daddy made me go to work with him until yesterday afternoon.
Johnna:And then you said you started doing less lethal security stuff about three years ago.
Luke:About three years ago I got hooked up with Berna Technologies.
Johnna:So kind of explain so what is Berna and what is less lethal security, Like how do the two coincide and how are they independent of each other?
Luke:so burner technologies. It's a company that developed and manufactured a way for law enforcement military to be able to interact with people without using deadly force a taser.
Luke:It has its limitations a lot of people don't realize that. So burner went out. They started developing you know, different types of if you want to call them, guns, launchers, whatever you want to call it to try to mitigate the death by cops and security forces around the world. This launcher right here is the second generation, the first prototype. It was good, it just didn't have enough force behind it, but they've developed it so that that way you can literally protect yourself at up to 60 feet.
Johnna:And when you're saying you can protect yourself, what does it use versus like a gun? Obviously uses a bullet. So what would these launchers slash guns because they look like guns. What would they use to deter or mitigate the less? I guess what you'd say Less lethal, yeah.
Luke:So with a traditional gun gun it takes a bullet. The bullets powered by black powder gunpowder. These right here are powered by co2s, so, like a typical woman might carry pepper spray on her keychain. I've heard many stories about well, my kids set it off in the backseat just all kinds of stories. These have projectiles, little balls. They're 68 caliber and they're filled with pepper spray in a powder form. Okay. The reason for the powder is when it impacts something or someone, it will bust. When that is inhaled, it's good night.
Johnna:So can the actual pellet or ball or whatever you want to call it, actually like hurt someone, like can it penetrate skin? Can it, can it do anything like that?
Luke:no, there's not a single projectile that burna has that will penetrate skin. The kinetic rounds will will hurt was a kinetic round so.
Luke:So there's a few different rounds. We have practice rounds, kinetic rounds and, of course, chemical agents. The kinetic round is a hard polymer, 68 caliber, so it's about the size of a nickel. That's a solid ball. It's not going to penetrate the body cavity but it's going to rupture like you would think it would. So it will crack ribs. It'll leave bruises the size of cantaloupes, with a knot the size of a lemon so with the burn of technology.
Johnna:They were initially developed for, like police officers or security enforcement, to use versus a gun.
Luke:So that's yes so that's the background of the burn of technology yeah, burn of technology started to mitigate the amount of people dying when it's kind of like in construction. You know I've been in your home many times, done a lot of different work in your home. Have you ever seen me just use one tool? No all right, think about a military personnel or a law enforcement personnel, if the only tool they have is a gun. Every, every problem's a nail.
Johnna:Correct. Yes, no, I get that comparison. So now, how did you like? I guess I'm trying to differentiate the Burna technology, because that's obviously what you sell, versus why you got into Less Lethal, because I didn't know that Less Lethal started three years ago. I thought it was when your business opened up a few months ago.
Luke:No Less Lethal Security LLC started. We had our grand opening on October 5th.
Johnna:Of this year, yes, but then earlier you mentioned you had been doing the Less Lethal for three years.
Luke:I'd been working with Burnham.
Johnna:Gotcha Okay.
Luke:With their products under Burnham.
Johnna:Gotcha. And then you opened your own independent store.
Luke:That is correct.
Johnna:Okay, that makes sense, gotcha.
Luke:And then you opened your own independent store. That is correct. Okay, that makes sense. I just didn't feel that they were getting it to the people that really need it.
Johnna:I mean, I'm fine with law enforcement having it, it's a great thing, but after listening to, I mean, I've been humbled by some of the stories I've heard. So you were wanting to take it from just training police officers, just training security guards, to bringing it to the public, mostly for female-owned to own? And what was the purpose of that? Why were you so passionate about bringing it into the public, especially for females to have it? What was the story behind that?
Luke:How blunt can I be?
Johnna:As blunt as you want to be.
Luke:Well, I'm sitting right across from you. You see what I look like 6'3" 270. The question was posed to me when was the last time I felt like I was going to be mugged or raped? Never, most humbling question I've ever been asked. So why am I still out here just training law enforcement only and teaching them, instead of the people that really need it? I had to do some thinking and decided to go ahead and sink money into it and start it.
Johnna:Was there anything like particular in your life that happened specifically where you were like I really want to help women, Because obviously men can come in and purchase this as well.
Luke:Oh yeah anybody can.
Johnna:was there a specific story or something in your life where you were like I really just want to help women become more secure walking around? I know you mentioned realtors because you're talking to a lot of realtors being in construction, but was there one specific moment, like maybe in your family in your life, that you were just like no, this really has to be put out to the public for women I'm a dad with a daughter to the public for women.
Luke:I'm a dad, mm-hmm.
Johnna:With a daughter, and so it was your.
Luke:Period.
Johnna:Okay, so you just wanted her to be protected.
Luke:Well, yeah, because I mean every dad wants their kids to be protected. Yeah. Having a female as a child versus having a male as a child. I've experienced both. My son passed away when he was 13, so no longer a dad of a boy. It's a different mindset than I would have ever thought. So part of the issue with our laws in this country is the age with consent on all kinds of things. So with firearms you have to be the.
Luke:You have to be 21 years of age to own a firearm nope, you have to be 21 years of age to carry a firearm around okay, I don't know anything about guns at all, yeah so we have. I have dads and moms all the time bringing in their 16, 17-year-old girls. I don't sell to them, I will sell to the parent. I will train whoever the parent asks me to train. I have one dad. The reason he brought his two daughters in one was 16, one was 17. The 17-year-old just started driving to high school this year.
Johnna:I mean that makes sense. So you mentioned you have to be 21 to carry a firearm. Is there an age limit to carry a burner product? Uh 18 okay, just curious on that. Now, when it comes to like I know, like we mentioned, like obviously everyone needs to be protected, but you mentioned earlier, like you were six, two, I can't remember what she says six, three and 270 pounds.
Johnna:And you've never felt that feeling of being scared, like when you're walking to your car or anything like that. And me and you have talked I have personally, knock on wood, never felt that way, other than one time in vegas when I stupidly walked myself back to my hotel, which was very dumb on my part, but just like everyday things, like going in and out of a grocery store, going and looking at a house with a realtor that you know may be of opposite sex or whatever it may be, and I've never personally knock on, like I said, knock on wood felt that way. But obviously I had told you. Maybe that's me being naive and being too trusting of too many people.
Johnna:Um, but as our city grows larger, because we used to be what we call a small big town, now we're becoming a big city and I have felt it a little bit more. But I also don't have to walk from the hospital to my car anymore, like when I used to work at the hospital and I worked 9A to 9P. I don't have to walk to my car by myself anymore, by the hospital, where it's dark, which I guess looking back, I guess there were some nights where that would be like, but we always worked out as a group together, so there wasn't many of those nights. So I do think it's important to highlight this for women especially. I'm not saying that men shouldn't need them either, because there are certain men that maybe feel a little bit more intimidated or scared if they're not of stature that someone else is but, I got a lot of men buying them.
Luke:Yeah, I mean, right now I'd say my sales are split, probably 70 women, 30 men. So I mean and it's as a guy, it's funny as hell, because I'll have the guy come in with his wife or girlfriend he'll be like well, well, I bought her a damn gun, but she don't want to carry it. It's true, she won't see this damn thing. And then after he shoots it he's like well, I want one too.
Luke:I'm like well, why? And he's like, well, I don't want to have to take a life if I don't want to.
Johnna:Period, right, and so was like shoot this gun. And I was like no, it made me cry. I was like I do not want to shoot a gun, I don't like it, I don't want to be around it. Number one, because things happen. I used to work in the ER. I would see people come in. They were like I was cleaning my gun. I shot myself, got killed because they grabbed the gun, didn't realize it was loaded, which I know. There's other things like gun safety and whatnot.
Luke:But if you could have this Gun. Safety only works if people adhere to it.
Johnna:Correct and we can think about. I know it's very not political to talk about guns and taking people's guns away in this country, so we're not going to dive down that topic. Why not no, because we're not going to do that.
Johnna:But when it comes to like these types of quote-unquote guns, launchers, whatever you want to call them, what are the security like behind them? I know you mentioned there's three different types, like where one is to deter because it looks like a gun. Can you mention those, like the different steps that it's supposed to do like security wise?
Luke:well from from a security standpoint, if let's use you as an example. Let's say you have this lean bag. I've got a package that I've been selling to a bunch of realtors that's what they seem to like. It's got a body alarm on it, a lean bag with a burner inside it. Let's say you're walking through a parking lot. All you have to do legally in the US not Alabama, not Tennessee, not Georgia, not in the US as a woman or a man is get audible. As soon as someone gets too close to you, if you just say, hey, back up, get away from me. If they progress any further, you have the legal right not to kill them. But you have the legal right to make yourself safe and defend yourself. If that goes to where you have to take a life, that'll come out in the wash, you know. But you have the right to be safe with a burner. It's very simple. You pull a body alarm. Most assailants that are trying to attack you, they, they don't want nobody to hear it. As soon as that goes off, they're going to focus on that. You pull out your burner, discharge a pepper round. They'll be laying there when the cops get there. It's not going to kill them.
Luke:But legally you're perfectly within your rights. You're defending yourself in that situation. Your rights, you're defending yourself in that situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against guns. Just as a contractor. I don't just have a hammer, I don't just have a drill. You know I don't just have a saw. You know there's different things for different applications To defend yourself being able to pull that out one. There's the deterrent, because most bad guys and we can go ahead and chalk it up, they're not the brightest. They see a woman pull that out, they're going to think it's a gun automatically.
Johnna:Because it definitely looks like a gun. Sometimes I wish I did have a visual podcast because then people could see. But it does definitely look like a gun, not a quote-unquote launcher that you called it. Yeah.
Luke:Because it looks very much like a guy. The only reason we call it a launcher is because the atf states that it is not a firearm, so we can't really use the word gun right because it's powered by co2 and not gunpowder that makes sense so. So under the atf laws it's not a firearm, it's not. I mean, I've got convicted felons that have come in here and bought them.
Luke:I had the uh couple police chiefs in here on grand opening shooting right beside a guy they arrested three months earlier, so I mean it entitles everyone to be able to give protection to their self, their belongings, their home, and that's that's the main reason that that I'm really behind it. That and the fact that I did not know how dangerous it was as a woman.
Johnna:Kind of explain that to me, like what are you talking about when you said you didn't know, or how cause I know you've mentioned to me you've been humbled many times kind of tell a little bit about your humbling experience, like just selling these launchers to specifically women. Like what have you heard that has humbled you?
Luke:I think the main one was a, a realtor. I won't mention any names, but like it messed me up. Like she said, you know I've been groped and fondled in more houses but I have to make this out. You know I have a principal broker I have. You know, I can't just turn the showing down. I never thought about stuff like that. Yeah.
Luke:Like, as a guy you know doing construction, building houses, remodels I've walked in many homes. At no point would I have ever thought that's a place to be victimized. But talking with some of my friends, with you know, alabama Bureau of Investigation, different police departments they've actually arrested men that have had booklets. They've actually arrested men that have had booklets these realtor pamphlets with different ladies circled down and it's like a shopping list for psychos. One lady told me she goes. You know, I was showing a house and luckily there was another realtor that brought some of their buyers by and that's what forwarded off the rape. But he had already had her 30% undressed. I'm like, well, like you don't carry a gun or nothing. And one thing that she says she goes well, we typically wear pantsuits or dresses. So listening to that, you know, I wound up getting some holster devices specifically for people that either wear a dress or leggings. Listening to her and just watching her cry here in the store, I mean, yeah, it humbled the hell out of me. I mean I was in tears.
Johnna:Well, I mean, I know that we had this conversation when we were talking about doing this podcast. There was a tick tock trend going on, maybe a few months ago, about would you rather be. I can't remember if it was killed or chased, chased or killed by a man or a bear.
Luke:No, would you rather be stuck in the woods?
Johnna:Oh yeah, that's what it was.
Luke:With a bear or a man.
Johnna:And there was a lot of men upset that a lot of women chose a bear but men weren't understanding that a bear is either going to kill you or it's not.
Johnna:One of the other. With a man it's there's so many different things and I'm not and again I'm not just trying to bash men or anything like that, because there are some men that are victims of this as well, but I'm just saying, like as a human. A human has so many different things that they can do to another human right. Like they can kill them, they can chase them, they can scare them, they can rape them, they there's just more. A bear's not going to do that. They're not just going to chase you, just to scare you. It's either I'm chasing you to eat you or I'm leaving you alone one of the two so what would your if you had to be?
Johnna:well, you're a man, but if you're a woman, which would you pick?
Luke:I'm not going to answer it that way, but I will answer from a man's point of view and I don't care if it ruffles anybody's feathers. As a girl dad, a man myself, I challenge men just to walk through grocery stores and parking lots and just observe the hands of their women that are alone walking through those parking lots. I guarantee you'll count more. That either has a can of mace in their hand or the keys tucked between their fingers.
Johnna:Yeah, we were always told to like hold your keys in your fingers so that if someone came, you could like kind of at least as a man, that's never been a concern of mine. Or like I'll have my keys and or my alarm to my car Because, like you said, any kind of noise noise no one's trying to like cause a scene or anything like that I would have the alarm, like my thumb, ready to push the alarm button on my car well, see, it's like social media, like I don't do social media.
Luke:You know I had a myspace page. It was pretty cool, but I don't do social media. I've seen the the trend. A bunch of my friends asked me the question. A lot of people ask me hey, what do you think about the bear versus the man? At first I was like I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Once it was explained, I was like oh yeah, a bear. You'd rather your daughter be in the woods with the grizzly bear than a man. Hell yeah, I would, yeah, absolutely look at the statistics. How many bear attacks are there every year? How many men rape women every year?
Johnna:there you go right, but it was like a huge thing, like I know. Obviously, clearly we're behind the times on the trends with this podcast. We should have done the podcast a few months ago just to be on that trend, but going, going back to the launcher, because I forgot I had asked you like the different types that you have. Um, but I did want to ask you because you said it shoots like a pepper spray ball. So what is the distance the launcher can do versus like an actual pepper spray canister, I guess?
Luke:if you will. It's a little handheld aerosol canister. The thing about those your confinement is about 8 to 10 feet. The thing is it is aerosol. The thing is it is aerosol. And as women and I'm gonna probably catch some shit for this, but as women, you guys use a lot of aerosol stuff yeah, what happens?
Johnna:it comes back on you. There you go, like hairspray and all that. Yeah, there you go. It does.
Luke:I mean it does if you have to one. Let someone get within eight to ten feet of you to use the product, and then there's the risk of that product coming back on you. Why would you use it?
Luke:correct so with one of these launchers you have effective range that is, effective range at 60 foot. You got engagement distance of 80 to 100. Effective range through our studies has been 60 foot. So if you pull it out and somebody's coming towards you, you've already warned them to get away and they're not go ahead and shoot them with one. It's not going to kill them.
Johnna:So what if they're like one foot away from you and you hit them with this thing? Is that going to do more damage than if you're farther, or is it more painful if it's farther?
Luke:It doesn't matter Because of the speed At three and a half feet outside the barrel, it's all going to hurt like hell.
Johnna:And once it hits the person is that when it combusts, and it would almost be like an aerosol.
Luke:It's not an aerosol. No, I know, I'm just saying like what it did, so it would create a cloud, okay. That's what I yeah.
Johnna:So that cloud bubble is about five and a half feet. Okay, so, and it only takes just a bit. Here's my problem.
Luke:If I bought one of these things. Do you know?
Johnna:where I'm going with this. I think I do, and I missed the person, then what? At least you're not going to kill an innocent bystander yeah, but what if, like I'm saying, they're still charging at me and then like shoot them again.
Johnna:You got five rounds but you know, when you people get nervous or anxious, like that's, that's why I don't want a gun. First of all because if I get nervous, like you said, it's going to take a life. If you get nervous or anxious and you're just shooting all around, there's people around. You've just hurt innocent people exactly but like what if they're coming and I have this launcher, and how many does it hold? How many pellets does it hold?
Luke:All right. So first let's tackle this from the start. So and I don't know, you're probably going to catch a bunch of grief over what I'm fixing to say Leading off of what you just said. That's the reason I don't believe everybody needs a gun. Not everybody's going to be accurate with a gun. Once that bullet not a projectile, but a bullet leaves that barrel, whoever fired it is responsible for wherever it lands and whatever damage it does. And if you suck at shooting and you hit a child, a mom, a dad, a grandparent, you're responsible for taking that life.
Johnna:Just to give an example off that before you continue. So my friend's mom was standing in her kitchen out in the country and their neighbors which again it was in the country, so they're pretty far apart. I'm not good with feet, but, um, they were pretty far apart and they were just like shooting, like practice shooting, and they missed their target and it went through their window and was like literally an inch away from her head and it went and it landed in, was like literally an inch away from her head and it went and it landed in her refrigerator happens all the time had she been one inch over, should have been dead
Johnna:yeah so like I just wanted to give an example of what you were talking about, like with how dangerous they can be, but continue.
Luke:Sorry, no, you're fine. They can be dangerous and that's the thing you know. You say you're not comfortable with it. You know I've had other women that's come in the store. They're not comfortable with it. You know I've had other women that's come in the store. They're not comfortable with it until they shoot it and then they understand all right, there's no recoil, they have nothing to worry about there. It's not going to kick, it's not super loud, it's not going to shake their hands apart. It's not like a traditional firearm, like a pistol, where there's a slide that moves back after every shot and a lot of people get bit is what it's called. It's when the slide catches the skin on top of your hand.
Luke:So I've watched a lot of women that are of timid nature walk through that door right behind you right behind you by the time they leave. After an hour and a half of doing their training, they walk out of here like Tomb Raider.
Johnna:So, talking about your training, which I know, you don't require it to buy your product, but why would you say it's important for the training to go along with the product? And like what does the training entail?
Luke:I can make that really simple. Like we just said, I don't do social media. You know that I don't do podcasts. You know that I couldn't have set up the stuff you set up this morning, but you knew how. Yeah.
Luke:Well, now I've watched you, I think I could do it. Doesn't mean I'm going to be proficient with it, but I think I could do it. If you've shot before, great, you've shot before. I'm not going to require anybody to get any type of training. There's no background checks with these. There's nothing. You have to be 18 years old, you're good. But if you don't practice, how are you really going to know if you can defend yourself or your kids?
Luke:Right you know just hell. A week week ago, right here in owens crossroads, you know, lady stops for gas, runs in to get a soda. Before she came back out, dumbass jumped in her car, took off, oh, with her kid. Her kid was in the back seat right you know that's negligence on, in my opinion.
Luke:You know, I know we get in a rush and all that, but there's so many people so brazen to do things. If you have a form of protection, whether it be a gun, a launcher, whatever great, the more you have, the better you are With getting the training. You then know all the ins and outs how to use it, when to use it, how to reload everything. The cool thing about this any person, whether it's male or female, that purchases here, they can come to this range anytime they want for free. Okay, I'm not going to charge a person to get better at defending themselves. I think that would be more of a dick move than anything.
Johnna:But is that true? Because, again, I don't know. Is that true of gun ranges, like, do they charge for range time?
Luke:Oh yeah, oh God, it can. Depending on what you're taking in there, it can get up there.
Johnna:Now let's say that someone just wants range time.
Luke:Come on in.
Johnna:I'm saying like if they don't own a product. They just want range time would you then charge for that? Yeah, it's 20, okay, so nothing like crazy.
Luke:It covers the cost of the co2 and the projectiles, the practice rounds that they shoot back here on the range behind.
Johnna:That makes sense.
Luke:I was just curious if, like, it was all free or if someone was now, if anybody's interested in purchasing one, then yeah, I mean, by all means, they come in. I rec matter of fact, I've not sold but two. I've sold two without people shooting it. The rest I encourage everybody to step back here on the range. Try any of the models you want, see what's best for you.
Johnna:Now, what are the different models that you have?
Luke:So I have the SD, which is the smaller version. It uses an 8-gram CO2 to power the projectiles. The LE model, which is the law enforcement edition, it uses a 12-gram CO2 to propel the projectiles. A TCR which is mainly for home defense. It holds quite a few rounds, and then a Mission 4. I primarily sell those to law enforcement. You know they're a tactical style rifle. They are modeled after an AR platform, but the two handguns I mean they're modeled after a Glock.
Johnna:And how like, so which out of each model, like like, do they hold different amounts of the pellets?
Luke:yeah, so the two pistols, each one holds a uh, holds five rounds. Okay, uh, the tcr it has a 19 round magazine with a backup seven round magazine. The mission four can hold up 32 rounds okay and then, of course, I have one more that I don't sell to the general public at all. I don't think anyone in the general public needs that one, so I sell that with the law enforcement only.
Johnna:Gotcha, Now, as far as your training, going back to that a little bit, like I know you said that you like if someone's going to purchase, you're going to do now, well, we haven't talked about it actually. So you can come in and purchase, but you can also practice shoot it. But when it comes down to the training that you do, is the training a separate price? And what all do you do in that training that you wouldn't do just in the range trying to sell it?
Luke:So the actual training courses there's two courses. There is a traditional safety course with acquisition of targets how to engage a target and then there's a tactical level. We introduced the tactical level. I've got some friends on the sheriff's department. We all team up and do training with different individuals that come in the store.
Luke:The tactical training is for people that not only don't want to be a victim but that have the mindset like other people do Not all people have that mindset. So me personally and I'll just speak for myself if I'm in a situation to where there is a threat to either myself or those around me, whether they're friends, family, whoever I feel as a person, as a human, I'm not going to go down the political rabbit hole. But as a as a human, as a man, if I have the ability, I also have the responsibility to render aid. You know it's for me, I would engage. I mean, if I look around and let's say we're in a shopping center and somebody's in there with a knife, whatever, gun, whatever, I'm not going to be a coward and run knowing that there's other people that have no clue in the world how to defend theirself, knowing that I have the ability based on the training I've had and so forth. I also have the responsibility to engage that threat, so we offer that class as well.
Luke:I've had a lot. I've had a lot of females take that and I like. Well, what pushed you to do that three-hour course? And I hear the same thing. Well, 24 years old, me and my girlfriends go out and well, if I don't want to be a victim, I don't want them to be a victim.
Luke:And I'm like hell yeah, right on, and I do the training with them and, like I said, by the time they walk out of here I don't know if they're Laura Croft or you know, or little Debbie, I mean it's, I watch and I've had parents, you know, of 19, 20 year olds, call me and send emails and they're like my child is living different now. You know they're, they're more responsible at home. You know they're more attentive when we go out.
Luke:You know, and I like that because I mean, that's what it's going to take in this world If we don't change how we protect ourselves. The quote unquote bad guy, the boogeyman, they're going to keep on. That's all they do, that's all they know. They're not going to wake up one morning and be like you know what the hell, with this, I'm going to go get a regular job. They're just not going to do it, Right, right right.
Luke:So the more people that are protected, the less crime that's going to take place, because criminals want an easy target and if they see a woman walking with something on her hip or you know with the stature of I mean, do it if you want. Yeah, you know it's going to lessen that chance of something. I hope everybody buys one and never uses the damn thing Right.
Luke:We've already had a case in Guntersville 62-year-old lady. She used hers Now I don't think she needed to you know, shoot five rounds of the tear gas in the guy's car. But I mean she did defend herself and the guy. He wound up having a warrant. It was unrelated to that issue, but yeah, I mean he had already pulled this stunt a couple of times. Yeah.
Luke:Where he had backed into somebody. But when they get out, he snatches the purse, jumps in his car and goes, and luckily the grocery store that she was at, everything was on video, so it was, you know, cut and dry. I don't think she needed five rounds of it, I mean she had one. One is suffice. I promise I've been hit with that in her defense.
Johnna:That's when you have these anxious betties out here where that would have probably been me. It's like just shooting because maybe her eyes were closed and she doesn't know if it hit him. So she's just eyes closed going, which is someone who doesn't need a gun.
Luke:Exactly, they don't need a gun, they need a burner.
Johnna:Right, and I'm saying, like she probably knew, I can't have a gun, but I'm going to have this.
Luke:And if I do, if I have to use it, I'm probably gonna have my eyes closed and I'm probably gonna be a nervous. Nelly oh, I remember her like she scared the living hell out of me. And and lee, um, I have a friend, she works in here with me on the weekends and, um, because there's some women that they're, you know, I mean let's just cut the shit. You know they're, they don't want to have a man right in their face yeah and I get that.
Luke:So. But uh, we remember her like because I flipped my shit. Like she came in she had a revolver. She's like, well, my husband bought me and I'm like, oh, please quit waving that around well I can't pull the hammer, but I don't care if you can't pull the hammer back is it loaded.
Luke:Yeah, you know so. So I wound up training her. She wound up with a sd, a tan one, and um, I was talking to, uh, to a friend of mine down there he's the deputy and he's like, yeah, yep, seen one of yours in action. I was like what he goes, yeah, I got some video. I was like, man, I'd love, I'd love to get that video, I'd just love to. He goes. Well, she shot five times. I was like, well, that's not bad, he goes. They were all tear gas.
Johnna:So there's a difference in pellets as well. Oh yeah, okay. So what kind of pellets do you sell? I didn't know that there was a difference. I thought it was all just one like pepper spray pellet.
Luke:So we have some that are the pepper projectiles. So it's a soft shell. 1.3 pounds of pressure cracks the shell and then you have a cloud of capsaicin pepper. That that's. That's pretty effective.
Johnna:Is that one going to going to, like you said, crack ribs or anything? No, no, absolutely not. See, that's the one I need, because I don't need to be cracking no ribs, because my thing is is like being medical if the one that can crack the rib can crack the rib, what if they have? What if? What if you do have this nervous woman and she got her eyes closed and shoots to the skull, is it going to crack the skull, like I know? I know you said it can't kill nobody, but like you know, no, no, no.
Luke:Hold on a second. Hold on a second, hold on a second. I want to back up. I'm a bottle of water can kill someone if I drowned you with it yeah these are less lethal so they're still lethal? I'm no no, you're not gonna put words in my mouth. Anything can be lethal, right? Okay, hands, I mean jujitsu, anything can be lethal Right, okay Hands. Jiu-jitsu Anything can be lethal. These are a less lethal form. Okay. So I can tell you that not a single projectile will penetrate the human body. Right.
Luke:Period. Okay, Now yes, if you was to get a shot and it hit someone in the Ridge Temple, it could possibly kill them. It is what it is At the end of the day.
Johnna:See, this is why I do not need one.
Luke:But at the end of the day, if that person has sought out you as a victim, try to defend yourself in a less lethal option. Okay, great, if that happens to result in it killing them, at least you're not a victim.
Johnna:I don't know, I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that and it killing them. At least you're not a victim. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that. I just don't Like, I know we were talking before this podcast. I think and I know this is going to sound crazy, I don't know Like I've never been in that position. So it's like one of those things where you could say all you want to say before you're in that position.
Johnna:But I feel like I would just have this immense guilt, no matter what, whether I was trying to defend myself or not, because I'm just I do that anyways. Like if I'm having a conversation with someone or, let's say, an argument, and I know that I'm right in that argument, I still go home and like have to sit there and think about it and go, man, and I always end up apologizing to that person. Now, whether that's right or not, I'm in therapy for it, I know. But I'm just saying, like take that a step further and I'm defending myself. Like I know, thought-wise it was the correct thing to do because I was defending myself, but moral, compass-wise, I think I would just feel guilty.
Luke:Okay.
Johnna:Something I have to work on in therapy.
Luke:So going down that hole. Let's walk down that path for a second. Yeah, you know this has come up with a few other ladies I'm going to watch the phraseology very carefully here which is unlike me and you know that I've never been raped. I'm a guy. I've been in fights guy, I've been in fights. I can't and I won't try to put myself in that situation. But big, but big. But listening to women that have opened up in my classes, I don't know if it's because of the situation here or the fact that they were surrounded by other women that had probably been through some of the same stuff and felt comfortable, but the opening up and me listening, you know, I think a woman would rather be killed than raped.
Johnna:Oh for sure, Because of the PTSD with it. So, with that being said, if you're defending yourself, no, I know, I'm just saying coming from a perspective of not being in that situation. I can't sit here and say what I would or wouldn't feel or wouldn't do. I can only speak from what I know and I'm using it when I use the example of, like an argument.
Johnna:Completely different, right, but that's the only example that I have and that I know. So I don't know what I would feel or wouldn't feel if that situation were to ever happen to me, and I can't say that if I defended myself, that I would be like, yay, you know, I defended myself, or would I feel immense guilt? I don't know. I'm only going off of what I've been through in the past, which has not been that serious.
Luke:I understand.
Johnna:So I mean, when you I mean, obviously I think I would try to defend myself. Why do I go to the gym? Why do I lift weights? Why do I make sure I have cardio where I can run and get a wet, like I'd clearly do things to protect myself in a way. Now, would it be enough in certain situations?
Luke:probably not but if you had something, say, like this device, to where you could pull it out very easily, pull the trigger, hit them with a chemical round.
Johnna:It's not going to kill them right right and then you have time we're talking about those very rare instances where possibly could be more lethal if you hit the right spot no, none of the none of the chemical rounds would ever kill anyone which. So we were going down that rabbit hole when I, when we got on this, what so, other than the chemical? Like we started with a soft pellet that does the pepper spray and capsaicin, what? What were the other?
Luke:so the other one is a is a mixture, so it's called. The max so it has is the pepper which also has tear gas. Okay. And of course, they're both in a powder form. So that way, as soon as that capsule breaks, it's a very soft-shell capsule. So when it breaks there's a cloud. As soon as you breathe it, you're in the medical field. You know what I'm fixing to say. Yeah. As soon as it hits that mucous membrane. Good night. Right mucus membrane.
Luke:Good night, right, it's over with and so you can't see. It's laborsome to breathe, it's painful to breathe, it's water reactivation. What's in our lungs?
Johnna:you know this better than that and you can't, and a lot of people make the mistake of going to the sink and trying to wash it off.
Luke:They're screwed even more, yeah, even more. Every breath they take after they've been, they've been hit with this. It's excruciating and you've got a good 45 minutes to an hour. They can't see, they can't even attack, they can't do not. I don't know how to. I've had people all the time.
Johnna:They asked me in there I know it definitely gives you enough time to like jump in your car, drive away, call the police, they're still going to be there. I get, I get what you're saying there. I'm saying, on those rare instances, which is very rare, where you had mentioned, it can crack a rib and I'm just like thinking in my head the kinetic rounds only well, what's? What's the kinetic round? It's a hard polymer round is there tear gas in that?
Luke:no, so they're meant to like they're meant to punch the body just like a boxer would okay.
Johnna:So yeah, let's leave those off the table. How many women buy those? Or is it just men that honestly?
Speaker 2:it's I was gonna say that's probably just men it's guys that buy them. Yeah, go figure.
Luke:They sell in a 95-count bottle and guys just eat them up. I figured no offense With women when they come in here, like it's one of my daughters, what would I want my daughter to carry to protect herself? I'm going straight with a pepper. I'm going straight with the tear gas. Right, I'm going straight with a pepper. Yeah, I'm going straight with the tear gas. I think I would be fine with a pepper.
Johnna:I think I could do it. I shot the launcher prior to the podcast. I personally don't like shooting things because it makes me feel like it's a gun.
Luke:Well it looks like a gun.
Johnna:I've never shot a gun, ever in my life. My uncle tried to get me to I just wouldn't do it. I started crying. Actually I was like please get that out of my face. I think I was like 17, but I shot that and it's just loud and it feels like a gun. But I don't know, like weight wise, maybe it's a little bit, maybe it's a lot lighter, like it's a lot.
Luke:Okay, I've never shot a gun, so all I'm thinking in my mind is this feels like a gun. Let me explain this for other people that may be in your situation.
Johnna:I don't know, maybe I'm a, I don't know. That many people haven't shot.
Luke:Me neither. That's why I said may be in your situation.
Johnna:Maybe I'll go to a gun range at some point in my life.
Luke:I don't know. So when you pick up a traditional firearm, it has a bunch of bullets in the magazine, adds weight to it. When you squeeze that trigger, there's a bunch of things that start happening. So the firing pin strikes the primer. The primer ignites the gunpowder. The gunpowder pushes the bullet out of the barrel. At the same time that pressure pushes the slide back, which will eject that shell casing and slide another bullet into its place. So there's a lot of things that's happening. So it's loud, it's super loud. Recoil like crazy, kick back on you with the launcher. It's literally pull the trigger, pull the trigger, pull the trigger. Nothing else is happening. Nothing else is happening, it's just balls coming out, the end of it.
Johnna:So I mean Now I get what you're saying for sure, I think, because I worked in the ER and I've seen a lot of crazy shit, like I've seen a lot of bad stuff as well. I also worked trauma unit at Vanderbilt, saw a lot of people shot.
Luke:Oh, I bet.
Johnna:I guess I'm thinking the worst in people, just from the job that I've had, and I'm like thinking in my mind, like are people going to come in here and get these and use them as like games to just, oh, like sister and brother? Oh, you pissed me off, I'm going to shoot you with this thing, that's a really, really messed up.
Luke:brother and sister, I'm just okay well, you haven't met my family. I'll be honest with you Even though, so go to that point a little bit. So there's no background check required. I've called a little bit of shit for that, but it's not a gun. So technically there is no background check, there is no paperwork.
Johnna:Stupid question Do you have to have a background check if someone goes to buy a knife? No. Okay, so that makes sense then. So it's just a gun that you have to have a background yes okay yeah, make, it make sense right.
Johnna:So if this is this is this is less lethal than a knife, and a knife, doesn't that? So that makes sense if you don't have to have a background check but then again you don't have to have a background check. For pepper spray, I think you just have to be of a certain age, correct? 18, okay, which again, I've never had pepper spray well, I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of laws. There's a lot of laws that don't make sense.
Luke:Yeah, you know. You tell me how um a young man or young woman can turn 18, graduate high school and join the military oh, and shoot a gun and go shoot a gun, but they can't legally have a beer. When they come back home and their mom or dad wants to congratulate them on serving this country, they can't have a glass well other countries you.
Johnna:18 is the legal limit for alcohol. Yep, yeah.
Luke:So, like I said, there's a lot of laws that are dumb as hell. You know, you're okay with this this young man or young woman potentially dying? In a combat situation to protect our freedom, but you don't trust them enough to have alcohol.
Johnna:And in Alabama they can't smoke a cigarette until they're 19.
Luke:Exactly, but they can go fight in a war, yeah.
Johnna:Yeah, I never thought about that actually.
Luke:Think about it for a second.
Johnna:Yeah, it's interesting.
Luke:So we have a lot of quote-unquote laws and I'm using those air quotes in wide, wide span because, like I said, make it, make sense. You know this right here I don't sell to anyone under the age of 18, correct? I will train a 16 year old girl or boy and people are like, well, that's still selling to them because you know their dad's going to give it to them, or their mom's. I don't give a rat's ass. Should they not have that same protection?
Johnna:I don't know. Yes, they should still have the same protection, as long as I guess in my mind I'm thinking they have to have the training because think about no, that's absolutely 100%. Right their parents are always like hey, Because think about the 16-year-old mindset, where it is about revenge. Like my boyfriend cheated on me, I'm going to shoot them with this thing. You know, what I'm saying.
Luke:Like I'm just saying Don't cheat on your partner. But I'm just saying no, I see what you're saying.
Johnna:Or you're pissing me off. You didn't do the dishes.
Luke:I'm going to shoot you in the you got to think the mindset and of the and the responsibility side of that mindset of the people.
Johnna:I think I just watch too much TV.
Luke:I think you do. I'm pretty sure you do, because I know that these are for a good thing.
Johnna:I think that I, just because I have been in so many bad situations or seen so much crazy shit, like you wouldn't believe things that people got mad about over Like come in.
Luke:I'm a contractor. I have seen people get mad about the dumbest things.
Johnna:I'm talking, yes, but like when they come into the er and I'm like this woman had a knife the back anyways, and I was just like what happened? It was the dumb like the dumbest shit, and you're just like somebody ate the last slim jam for that like I've had customers get mad at me and if they had a burner they would probably me.
Luke:They're like this paint color looks awful and I'm like is that not the paint color you chose? Right, you know Right right.
Luke:But it comes back down to sensibility and responsibility. You know, when I meet with parents in here and you know I've got a classroom back here in the back when we go back there with the minor, it's the parent's responsibility to take and inform them that, hey, we're going to get this for you so that you can have it in your vehicle when you're traveling to and from. You know, I had a young man here in town. He's got a daughter, like I was saying, the two daughters one's driving from school. She stopped at a gas station the same gas station actually this k down here that uh, the guy stole the car with the kid inside. She stopped for gas. After school. A couple couple guys started talking to her. She got back in her car and left, didn't even pump gas. Well, they jumped in a truck, started following.
Johnna:Yeah, they got up.
Luke:That's been happening a lot lately here in town they got up beside her, kind of made some gestures, you know. So she, she got scared, she was just frantic. She called her dad, her dad's over on the arsenal working. He said babe, get to the subdivision, do not go home, just drive around through the subdivision. He hangs up, he calls the police. They send squad car to squad car. They completely closed off this subdivision right down the road here, drove through, found him, blocked him in. Yeah, registered, he's registered in the state of Georgia. Yeah.
Luke:Yeah.
Johnna:No, I mean it is scary. And I'm not saying people shouldn't have the right to protect or defend themselves, because they definitely should. I'm just saying there are some quote-unquote cra girl people out in the world. I guess do you, do you have the right to refuse a sale if you think it's going to be used inappropriately? I already have.
Luke:Okay, I own I own this, berna doesn't own me right, okay me and berna technologies. We have a hell of a relationship, a wonderful relationship, from from christian to lawan to all the way up. You know, the cool thing about less lethal security is it's mine, right I own it. I have refused sales.
Johnna:I've I mean I'm not going to stereotype different individuals, but I've had people come in and just by the way they were talking about how they wanted it and this thing I'm like look, you need to get out of the store which is your own background check because you like, which kind of comes in handy, where you've had construction background, because you've met a lot of different people and you can kind of read people which, speaking of that, transition like going from construction to now retail brick and mortar. What has that been like?
Luke:suck.
Johnna:You asked the question no, I'm just, I'm just like just kidding, but why so?
Luke:I've grown up blue collar. I grew up my daddy, my granddaddy, uncles. We built shit. That's what we did. We're men. We've done the work.
Johnna:Wife, stay at home, raise kids blue collar and guys, nobody at us, just he was just using an example, like he's not telling people to stay at home oh shit, just say this why don't they say that's why? I'm just saying, like I know what you meant yeah, like and the females that listen to this. I don't think that they're going to take it that way, but just a caveat. That's not what he meant. Thank you for that, you're welcome.
Luke:You can get me killed with a burner. No, it's. I grew up a certain way. You know I was born in in 70s, you know, or technically in 79, but I grew up with a dad that was old-fashioned southern. He went to work, mama stayed home, mama raised kids. That's how it was. So I've grown up in blue collar all my life. I've been very fortunate, done very well in the construction industry. I've been doing the corporate side of sales with Berna Technologies. As far as to law enforcement agencies, stuff like that, private groups.
Johnna:Right.
Luke:I enjoyed it. You know it fit into some more of my background. You know it fit into some more of my background. It wasn't until the question that was posed to me, like I spoke earlier about. You know when was the last time I felt unsafe? And then I was like damn, like yeah, I'm selling to all these police departments. The cop's never going to like he's got a gun. He's got all this other stuff, but about the other side of it half of the people that don't have all this stuff.
Luke:What? Why are we not? So you know, when I went to berna and I'll tell you I don't know if I'm gonna get shit on the corporate side from this, but it was a funny story. You know, I go to the to lawan and uh, to christian, and I'm like hey, I want to open a store, storefront, physical location, indoor range, training the whole nine. They're like great, where are you going to do it? At Luke, I was like right here, where I live, he goes where In Alabama. I said, yeah, in Alabama. Don't everybody in there got a gun already?
Luke:Pretty, much I said, yeah, no, they do. I said got a gun already pretty much. I said, yeah, no, they do. I said but the problem is I don't think all of them know how to use their gun correct and if I can open this door for a man, a woman to be able to have something safer and not for them safer, but safer for the general public around them- because, like I said, one of these goes past their target.
Luke:Worst thing's gonna happen is it's gonna hurt somebody. It's not gonna kill them you is it's going to hurt somebody, it's not going to kill them, you know, it's not going to be detrimental to their health. So there was a lot of talk, I guess because you've got to think these guys are. You know, las Vegas is our flagship store. You know we've got, you know, founders up in New York. Board of directors.
Luke:You know we're publicly traded on Wall Street. So you got a lot of people talking what the hell is he going to open one in?
Johnna:the. South for yeah.
Luke:We opened on October 5th, as you know, we're only open from 12 to 6 on. Wednesdays and Thursdays 12 to 9 on Fridays and 9 to 9 on Saturday. Everybody's like well, why aren't you open the rest of the week? Well, I am open, not to the general public. That's when I do law enforcement training. I have some narcotics, undercover agents. I can't have the general public.
Johnna:Right.
Luke:When opening those doors. I'll never forget the spoonful of defeat that I was given before I turned that key.
Johnna:What do?
Luke:you mean they were like I wish you luck, but I don't think it's going to work in Alabama.
Johnna:Oh, that's what they said to you, okay.
Luke:So you know, this is my money. You know I built this store. Right. You know, literally I mean contractor we built it out, remodeled it but I put all you could name it. I'm not a franchisee.
Johnna:And that's why you could name it less lethal security instead of burn. That makes sense.
Luke:That is correct. Okay, Well, that makes sense, Because I want to be able to judge the people that I sell to and if I think I don't want to really say it, it may put that notion in someone's mind to use it this way. But these could be used by the wrong types of people to commit other crimes. I'm aware of that. I'm not naive to it. I'm not stupid about it. I get it. They could be. It's my responsibility to be like. I don't trust that person. I'm not going to sell it to them.
Johnna:I don't know what you're talking about. I don't want you to say it on here. I don't want to. I'm like it's kind of going over my head, but I believe you, whatever.
Luke:I mean it can be used both ways.
Johnna:Oh, okay, well, that's not good. Speaking of the store and whatnot, do you have any like goals, aspirations, like something that you're hoping to achieve, like obviously you want it to take off and be successful, but like other things, like I know you had mentioned, for example, donating a burner product to females in need, or charity events or something like that like what kind of goals, in that sense, are you hoping to achieve?
Luke:so with, uh, with my, my connections with different law enforcement groups and county officials, we're looking at starting the 11th woman. I mean I'm probably going to catch some shit, but it's not going to be some registered 503C deal, you know, non-profit it's literally for every 10 that are purchased. Nonprofit it's literally for every 10 that are that are purchased. One is going to be donated to a woman that has went through the batter women's shelter, that has successfully completed whatever treatment she needed and they have re-established somewhere in the community.
Luke:She's already proven that she needs it right she's already been a victim, right, so that that 11th one that goes to her it's free to her nobody I'm. She's not paying for it. She's not paying for the training. It's taking someone that's already become a victim and hopefully changing the outcome so they never become a victim again right until that all starts changing. It's going to be a cycle. We've, we've all, we all know that one person that's been in that relationship and we've told that person man, you got to get away from them well, it ain't gonna happen again, and by god it happens again yeah
Luke:and then again and again and again. At a certain point we got to stop worrying about are we just being nosy or are we really going to try to help each other and when I say each other, not just your friends? I've got shirts in my closet that I wear out in town Now. I've got some that tout my construction company, I've got some that tout Les Latham, and I've got some that are hands on me. If you see me wearing it, I don't care if you're a man, woman, child, if you feel unsafe. Any of those guys that wear those shirts, we wear them for a reason. Walk up to us, put your hands on us. Ain't nobody going to touch you?
Luke:We'll contact authorities. We've had it happen. Yeah, you know, guys like man she's just crazy. Well, I don't give a damn if she is. Yeah. But we're going to sit here until the cops get here and until we, as a society, Start believing women Exactly.
Johnna:I think that's the biggest problem is just not believing women, like, whether it be like maybe, like like people say, oh, she's just crazy, or you know, there is a lot of that. Um, I think it's gotten some better, but not where it needs to be, where, like you know, back in the 40s and 50s, no one, it didn't matter what you said, nobody, it didn't you just weren't believed. As far as, like, it's gotten a smidge better and I'm saying a smidge, we still have a long way to go. So I do appreciate you taking the time to do this podcast and to talk about, like, what you're doing for women with this um company, less lethal security and where can people find you? I know you mentioned you don't have social, so if someone's wanting to get.
Luke:We have. We have social for the, for the business I was. I was forced, drug twisted, beat into submission well, that's retail.
Johnna:You have to have somewhere, because people are going to want to connect and people may want to like, follow you or learn more about this product. So where can people find you? Whether it be to contact you, come to the store. Find you on socials list all the different places.
Luke:If they go to lesslethalsecuritycom and they'll have a link to the Facebook page, they'll have a link to what is that?
Johnna:Instagram. Yeah, that one.
Luke:I don't. I don't really know how to how to keep doing that one. I'm trying. Um, it's a learning curve. Even the retail side of it's a learning curve. Uh, people walk in and they see this big guy with a beard go hey how you doing you know what can I help you with?
Luke:they're like oh shit. But you know they can. They can go to our website. They can come here to the store. We're right here in hampton cove, right behind cbns bank and redstone federal credit union. You know our address. We've got a pin on there so they can hit that and come right here they can. They can take the number, they can call what's your phone?
Johnna:what's the number they can call?
Luke:so it depends okay, on I'll link it in the yeah, because, like I said, during certain days I do certain training gotcha the phone's not even answered okay.
Johnna:So what we'll do then to make it easier for everybody, if you're listening and you kind of want to find out more about this product, we will link your socials in the um. Just the description of the podcast um, your email and then phone number. Everything will be linked. So I want to thank you again. I know time is precious, especially when you are working seven days a week with your different companies.
Luke:There's a lot of heat calls right now that I've been answering.
Johnna:But I appreciate you doing this and, guys, until next time. Bye, thank you.
