Babbles Nonsense
Welcome to my verbal diary where I want to discuss any and all things that is essentially on my mind or have wondered about. Sometimes I will be solo and then other times I will have some amazing guests to bring all different perspectives in life. The ultimate goal is to hopefully bring some joy, laughter, inspiration, education, and just maybe a little bit of entertainment. Don't forget to like, rate, and share the podcast with a friend!
Babbles Nonsense
Embrace Your Nutrition, Fitness, and Body with a Fresh Perspective w/ Meenu
#161: What if eating more and exercising less could actually improve your health? Join us for a heartfelt conversation with Meenu as she shares her personal journey through the intricate world of nutrition, societal pressures, and body image. From under-eating in her youth to embracing a macro-based eating plan, Meenu's story illuminates the complexities of self-worth tied to weight and the courage it takes to reassess our relationship with food. Together, we uncover the challenges faced by women navigating the confusing landscape of dieting, fasting, and metabolism, particularly when grappling with thyroid issues and hormonal imbalances.
Throughout our discussion, we tackle the outdated diet advice that often leads to restrictive eating and hyper-fixation on body image. As Meenu and I recount our experiences, we emphasize the importance of informed nutrition, balanced macronutrients, and the surprising realization that sometimes the key to enhanced health is understanding our individual needs. By shifting focus from solely aesthetic goals to mental and physical well-being, I highlight the benefits of weightlifting and real, nutrient-dense foods for long-term metabolic health.
Our episode also explores the contradictions in health advice and the overwhelming sea of information available today. We stress the importance of listening to your body and seeking professional guidance. Join us as we break down the myths and help you find an individualized approach to nutrition and fitness that truly works for you.
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What is up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense podcast. To kind of round up and conclude the previous two episodes where we talked about nutrition and thyroid health. I got to interview Min Yu on her health and nutrition journey. She talks about everything from under eating to now increasing her calories following a macro plan, all the diets that she has tried and everything in between. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you enjoy listening to her story. All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense Podcast.
Johnna:I have Minou here today. This is a little different for us. Typically I'm asking her all the questions about therapy, mental well-being, which all is important. But today I wanted to kind of do like a follow up of the last two weeks where I talked about nutrition and thyroid health with Minyu, because, since you know, I worked with her through mental stuff, like she went on a journey herself with health and dietary things and I was just like you know what. I've never actually sat down and interviewed someone. I've kind of helped coach before. So bring your questions that maybe I'm overlooking for people. So welcome back, minyu.
Meenu:Thank you so much. This is like we said. It's like out of our norm, like we don't talk about this. But then we were like, why not talk about it? You know, everything is kind of interrelated, right Like mind, body and spirit. It's interrelated, right Like mind, body and spirit. It's interrelated. So the body comes into the fitness and the wellness aspect. So I think we should talk about it and I think we should tell people where there are misconceptions and there isn't, and where there's truth and how to you know how to get the right information, because we have abundance of information around us doesn't mean it's right.
Johnna:Right, and by the time this episode airs my podcast will be four years old. So happy anniversary to the podcast. And I've told my story, you know, several times. I'll probably do it once a year. But for the people that don't want to like, go back and listen.
Johnna:Like I am certified in nutrition coaching. You know I am a nurse practitioner but I do not give medical advice over podcasts and you would be surprised how many healthcare providers don't understand nutrition and things like that. But it also makes sense when there's a whole degree for it, with a registered dietitian and whatnot. But it always shocks some of my friends when they're like how do healthcare providers, like doctors and stuff, not know, know nutrition? You get like one little semester, not even a semester, like one little week on it and then you dump it and you try to learn more disease processes or whatnot.
Johnna:But you know I struggled with dietary restriction my entire life, like growing up in the 90s, like that was just the norm for females.
Johnna:Like you look at I remember me looking at 17 magazine and stuff like that and like all these girls are real thin and it's just like in your mind you equate thinness or how skinny you can be with beauty, you know, and there's societies always telling you that are people making comments on your body. And so it started for me, like when I started like being like, okay, I need to lose weight. I think when I was I know I was in junior high because I remember I started gaining weight faster than my friends when I had always been like a thin person and I was just like, why am I now gaining weight? But also, looking back, contributed to being put on birth control. So then it wasn't junior high, it was high school, because I was. So it was probably around 16 when I started being like, ok, I'm gaining weight. I actually was developing like large breast, you know stuff like that. And looking back, it was probably some of the birth control hormone related thing.
Johnna:Right right right, because I know you grew up in India. Did you have any of like this like growing up, or was it not until you came to America that the societal pressures of being thin started?
Meenu:Oh my god, it's actually, I believe it to be so much worse in India. Really okay, I've lived in India for 18 years and I'm I'm. I've lived in United States now for almost seven years and I lived in other parts like Mexico and Singapore, outside. So I've lived outside of India and I've lived in India, equally almost, and in India I can hands down say it is the absolute worst in India, because not only do people judge you, people actually come to you and ask you questions.
Johnna:Like what Like what kind of questions?
Meenu:How did you gain so much weight? Wow, okay, yeah. And then they'll be like what happened I think you need so much weight. Wow, okay, yeah. And then they'll be like what happened I think you need to lose weight. Like people literally will give you unsolicited advice and they'll be like oh, I looked at your pictures and it looks like a little bloated. Wow, wow, it's very bad. So when you say junior high, I thought something for me in junior high which is awful.
Johnna:Like you know, I actually lost 35 pounds in a summer in junior high, in junior high, because I literally stopped eating because everybody called me fat and you know, when I was in almost entering into high school, which is crazy, because that's when women are, which is a hard time, because you know, in junior high, like people are like starting to make fun of people and stuff like that which we if that could just go away, that'd be wonderful. But that's never going to happen in this world, unfortunately. I shouldn't say never. Maybe it will. But like you are developing, you're going through all these hormonal changes, like our weights fluctuating, like you don't you're not, and so I think the pressure was on for everyone.
Meenu:Yeah, around the time, like people were losing weight people, you know, the new interest in fashion came, and then suddenly men were paying attention to women, like it was just, you know the hormones yeah, so it's like you do it for the hormones so you?
Johnna:so you quit eating. Like what? What were you eating to lose 35 pounds in junior high? Like you said, you just quit eating. Like how little were you eating? Barely.
Meenu:Like if I used to have like one plate of food, I would like have quarter a plate of food and then I would drink water. And then it's just I was doing so many unhealthy things to to lose the weight, to get the approval of my family and to get the approval of society.
Johnna:But where? Where did you learn? I guess the way to lose weight was to eat less? Like, where did you? Did you read that somewhere? Did someone tell you that? Like, where did you get the concept of I need to eat less? Because my first experience was I need to move more. So I just started running, but I was eating the same.
Meenu:Okay, so so, yes, so the fitness industry and the fitness culture, um, in India wasn't that that much at that time, like people weren't really like talking about it, like, yes, there were gyms and stuff, but it's not nearly as close to the awareness we have right now. Right, and moving your body so back, like losing weight literally meant eating less, and any anybody that was overweight, the judgment from society was like, oh, she probably eats a ton.
Johnna:Okay, so that makes sense Because, like, I did start eating less, but that didn't come until college and it came more.
Johnna:So, like, from talking to a lot of college girls, I was like, because you know, you start moving more, so you lose a little bit of weight because you're doing more activity, but then it stalls and we're going to get into that in a little bit, but, like, your metabolism slows and it speeds up based on what you're eating and what you're doing movement wise. And so I was still eating the same, so I had lost a little bit of weight, but then it came right back because I didn't change any dietary habits to college, college and I'm, you know, gaining weight. And then I'm talking to other girls that are very thin. I'm like, well, how do y'all, you know, lose weight? Because this is this is new for me that I can't like either get it off or keep it off. And then that's when they were like, you know, well, you need to really count your calories and you need to do this. So that triggered me into like, okay, well, maybe I am eating too much.
Meenu:So so then I started like decreasing calories, and then I was working out more, so I was probably at net negative calories for the day, and I think that's kind of what happened to me too, Like because I like lost so much weight because I was eating less, but then sometimes I would eat more because you know, obviously the body needs calories, so sometimes I would eat more and then I would check the weight the next day and then I would have gained a pound because the body doesn't know how to hold it. It's probably water, Like all these things. I didn't know back then because for me it was like you eat, you have to eat less permanently. Eat less permanently, eat less. That was the mantra to like not just lose weight, but to like maintain the lost weight when I think I was in scarcity for a very long time, like starvation mode for the long time, and I didn't even know it.
Johnna:Yeah Well, for me, I, you know, I think it was by the time I had graduated my undergrad, so I was probably 22. I'm pretty sure 22 when don't hold me to these numbers because I can't do math in my head 22 when I graduated and I got my first, you know, nursing job and I was working night shift. I had just gotten breast implants and then boom, 40 pounds of weight gain, sleeping all the time, hair falling out, and I was like what is going on? And I was making a little bit better money with a job. So I was like I can hire a fitness and nutrition coach, hired a fitness and nutrition coach and was following everything they said, you know, and this was actually a really good one, like I've.
Johnna:I've had fitness and nutrition coaches where they're like only eat tilapia and green beans, or only eat tilapia and asparagus, no carbs, no rice, no, this, no that. Those. I'm telling you, if you have a coach like that no offense to any of them get rid of them right now, because they're doing you a disservice. My coach, it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable. You're. You're gonna lose weight on it, that's a given, but it's not something you can do lifelong. And that's the whole thing with the diet industry. Anyways, this is a multi, multi-billion dollar company and let's think about that logically. Why is it a multi-billion dollar company? If they, if they got you to lose weight and keep it off, they would not be a multi-billion dollar company because you wouldn't go back to them. You would know what to do.
Meenu:It's almost like giving you a little bit of a taste of what you want and then not because, it's not sustainable.
Johnna:Right. And so this nutrition coach that I had she actually did macros so she would prescribe like protein, carbs, fat and calories. And then she and then like give me a fitness plan. And she based my macros off the fitness plan and my expenditure, and so I just kept gaining weight, kept gaining weight. She was like there is no reason you should be gaining weight unless you're just not logging the things. And you're. You know, you're over here eating things. You're not telling me. And I was like I'm not. So it was actually her who was like you need to go get your thyroid tested. I really think something goes wrong with your thyroid.
Meenu:Now you're speaking, man, yeah, you're speaking, because I mean, hey, we're coming back to me now. Yeah, you know, and I didn't know that either. Guys, it's like I had like hypothyroidism when I was growing up and then I don't know who said this to me. Some doctor that I got checked was like I think you can stop your medication. So I stopped taking the thyroid medication for a long time and I think that resulted in metabolism completely tanking down and then I was working out. I was like doing weight training. Again, we're going to talk about weight training and cortisol, because that also comes into it. I was doing weight training and this is a story. Last year I was doing weight training three times a week. I was walking, weight training, working out, not losing weight, and I was only eating 600 to 700 calories a day.
Johnna:And I'll say I don't think it was your weight training, I think it was the under eating, and so that's what we're going to kind of get into now, like we kind of shared our background of our stories and so like throughout the years from age 22, and now I'm 37. So between those years I've done extensive research. I've talked to read every book I could on diet, whether it be paleo, autoimmune, keto, vegetarian, vegan. I've read it, I have done courses because it just really interests me, because everything I was taught growing up is complete opposite of what I know now. So like, if you're out there and you're struggling with weight, and I know we're talking about weight because that's to me that's what most people fixate on I'm not saying not all, some people don't care and I perception, in my perspective now, like obviously health is first, like you know, and then weight loss is a side effect of being healthy. That's just what I believe now.
Johnna:Did I believe that 15 years ago? No, I was like I just need to be as skinny as I can. And the reason why I say that is because when I did, going back to the college, when I was working out more, eating less, like people were commenting on my body at the time. That's when I got the comments like wow, you look so good, you look so good. And I'm like so are you telling me? I didn't look good 15 pound heavier, but it was the constant reinforcement of you look so good. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
Meenu:That's exactly what happened to me, like over one summer, like I said, losing all that weight. Everybody was like oh my God, you look amazing, you look great, you look awesome, great. And then suddenly everybody loves me, I'm like. So in my mind that child, just you know, bringing that a little bit is it was reinforced that I'm lovable if I'm skinny Right, same Like a hyper fixating thing for me after that.
Johnna:Right, same, and so that's something I struggle with. I think I'll struggle with it all the time. Like the voice is very quiet now, but it used to be very, very loud, and I think it's something that I'll always go back to and go when something is, you know, going wrong in my life, is it because of this, you know and that, and I hope that that continues to get better, because it's gotten better year after year after year the more I've educated myself. But going back to the education I had in my 20s, like reading magazines and things like that, or listening to society, where it was eat less, move more and then having the nutrition coaches that were like only tilapia and asparagus, don't eat carbs, don't eat rice, rice is bad, especially white rice, don't eat white rice.
Johnna:And there are some things to that. But now you have to kind of do your own research, listen to people that you truly trust and have done the research for you. Sure, can white rice spike your glucose Absolutely, but there are things that you can do to mitigate that. You could also put green vegetables and protein with the rice and make you know I don't know what it's not like, but mix it up together and it's going to decrease that glucose spike and you're going to be fine.
Johnna:Not to mention, our body does need glucose.
Meenu:And I also like saw this one person talk about it, where they said, if you take the white rice and you put some scoop of coconut oil, or even ghee, yeah, any oil, yeah, and that helps you, like, cut the spike a little bit because you're adding fat to it.
Johnna:Yeah, fat, protein and especially green vegetables with your micronutrients like fiber, with the education that I have now. Like I remember when, like I worked with that really good coach that found my thyroid problems, I remember just being like so resistant to increasing my calories because I was like, well, I've already gained 40 pounds at the time we didn't know it was my thyroid. But well, I've already gained 40 pounds At the time, we didn't know it was my thyroid. But I was like I've already gained 40 pounds, if I eat more, I'm going to gain more weight.
Johnna:But I actually did start losing a little bit because my metabolism needed it because my cortisol was probably super high the entire time but my body needed the calories because I was under eating, overperforming, not sleeping because I was working night shift. Then I went and had the surgery and got breast implants and it was like boom, autoimmune disease triggered, gone. It was like the perfect storm.
Meenu:Right, right, so when?
Johnna:did you realize? Like was it just recently when we started talking? Like when did you go? Okay, this is completely different than anything I've ever learned or done when it comes to like someone telling you like hey, you're not eating enough, you need to actually stop working out. Cause that was one of the biggest hard thing for me. When someone was like hey, you need to stop working out, I was like what?
Meenu:Right. And so let me tell you a little bit about my journey and you already know this, but kind of the catalyst to what what actually happened in between, to change, change themes and change routes. So obviously there was always a belief that if you ate less, you lost more, right? So I was, you know, believing that, living through that.
Meenu:And anytime I ate a lot during a party or anytime I went at friend for vacation and I usually would come back and I would go on a fat diet. I would go on this, oh, three day fruit diet, oh this juicing and this, and that I tried, when I tell you, over 50 fat diets, yeah, and so because of that, my metabolism became even worse, you know, because that's what happens when you do fat diets, like you know, doing short fixes, short term fixes. So I guess I had come to a realization after trying multiple things, and the last thing I actually tried was intermittent fasting Because remember, guys, like when you're already having a like this many hours and I don't have to eat this many hours, what I was doing once again was putting my body in deficit a lot of deficit.
Meenu:So it became a self-fulfilling prophecy which is like oh, I'm being disciplined, I'm being good, I'm not eating for 16 hours, I'm only eating for eight hours. So I do this. But then what I didn't realize is it was ruining my metabolism again. And so then I pushed myself even more and I said, okay, I'm only going to do four hours a day of food and then the rest 20 hours I'm going to fast. And it became even worse and I said I'm going to do OMAD.
Meenu:And if you don't know what OMAD is, it's called one meal a day and a lot of people are doing it Because, I don't know, it's working for them or whatever. I was like oh you know what? Maybe this is the secret to my answer, maybe I need to do OMAD. So that was my last resort. I did OMAD, which made me eat just 600 calories a day. I was in so much deficit and I gained. I started gaining weight. That is when my eyes started opening. I'm like wait, I'm 34 years old and I'm eating 600 calories a day, and people are talking about eating 2000 calories a day, and I'm also gaining weight. Something is wrong. And I think that was the wake up call for me, when we had a call and I kind of told you what was going on and I was super resistant. When you were like I think you need to start eating more, I'm like wait.
Johnna:I want to lose weight. What are you talking about? Yeah, and I remember when you did that. That's why, when I do coach clients or whatnot and they have that initial reaction, I can truly empathize and not be like you're going to do what I say. It's more like no, I get it, it's scary, I get it, but just trust me and this is what I say to everyone and it usually is what gets them I go, you don't have to trust me, you don't have to do what I'm saying, but is what you're doing right now working for you? Because, if so, keep doing it. And that I'm like then give me six weeks, try it. Six weeks, you're already gaining the weight. So even if you gain weight with me, you were doing it anyways, we're doing it anyway, exactly doing it anyways that's exactly it.
Meenu:So for me, I had come to this, this, this point in my life where I tried everything else and nothing worked. So for me me there was nothing more to lose. I was like I mean, obviously wait. But I was like, okay, I'm just going to like listen to her and do what she says, like and and, and just see where it goes. And I think that's where it started. And I think for me, the other culprit, apart from the me ruining my own metabolism, was also thyroid. So it just it, everything plays a role. Guys, like the hormones, like get them checked. Like thyroid, get them checked. Like it doesn't happen just randomly, there is something going on.
Johnna:Right, right, and a lot of times like this is I know we're like this is mostly for a woman. So if you're a man listening to this, then go you for wanting to like learn more about women. But for women, obviously, our, our hormones are complex, like you can take that and say we're crazy, whatever, but they are complex. That's why a lot of people do not test things on women, and the diet culture being one of them. They don't test diets on women because it will it'll skew their results, because they don't know how it's going to affect women. I see.
Johnna:So when you talk about fasting, it can work for some women. I'm not saying I'm not saying this as a blanket statement, but in my personal opinion and research that I've done, it isn't the best for women because it does stress the body out, it spikes the cortisol, it causes your hormones to kind of dysregulate because we have all these different hormones progesterone, estrogen and testosterone. Men have one. Well, they still have a little bit of estrogen, but their main driving one. It's not going all over the place, it doesn't have different times of the month, it's the same all the time, that's exactly right.
Johnna:So they can do intermittent fasting and lose weight. But the whole idea of intermittent fasting that people aren't thinking about is to get you to limit your calories. It's not supposed to super restrict you. That's not the goal of it. The goal of is that if someone is overeating, let's say that they're supposed to have 2000 calories a day because that's just the easy number. But they're eating 3000 calories a day. The hope and the goal of intermittent fasting is to bring that 3000 to the standard 2000 by cutting out a meal.
Meenu:That makes so much sense because somebody talked about it and they said well, intermittent fasting, what it actually does is it does put you in a deficit, and so for people that are overeating it's very beneficial, but people like me, under eating, I think also to mention that I had a terrible relationship with food since I was a teenager, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. But it was like, oh, I'm under eating, eating, okay, let me continue. Under eating. Oh, now a professional is talking about intermittent fasting for women. Oh, I'm going to try to do this, so it just and so it.
Johnna:I think it takes a lot to re-examine, I think, your relationship with food and I think that it's very hard for women to try something new because the if you're already so afraid of food or you have poor body image, then you already have a hard time wanting to change anything because you're already struggling with that. If you're already struggling with weight gain, it's really hard to say, hey, come over here and try this, Because you're like, no, no, no, no, no, I can't because I'm already struggling with it. So I truly do empathize with it and I completely understand it. So I truly do and empathize with it and I completely understand it. But once you do step over that threshold and you start learning these new things like, oh, I can't eat more. Oh, it matters what quality foods I'm having. Oh, got it, Now I'm losing weight.
Meenu:Yes, and that's kind of what happened to me. Like I was at 600 700 mark and we did our macros and things like that. Jonna was like oh, you need to eat between like 1400 to 1800 and I'm like, wait, you're telling me I have to eat three times almost, and that is and let me just go ahead and so, yes, I gave her, I gave her a range, I it was.
Johnna:So actually her, the ones that I gave her, were 1800 and that that was still a deficit. That wasn't her maintenance calories. Her maintenance calories I want to say I don't have the numbers in front of me was either 21 or 2200 to like, maintain the current weight you are and change nothing. So she obviously wanted to lose a little bit of weight. So we put her at a 20% deficit and we put her down to 1800 calories. But the problem was is that she was eating already at six to 700 calories. So you can't go from six to 700 calories up to the 1800 because you will be in a surplus for your metabolism at that moment.
Meenu:Right, and so we had to do very like gradually it was almost like 50 calories a day and see how you feel and then, if you feel bloated, stop doing it and then just stay where you're at. It was truly a journey. It was truly a journey of patience, a journey of trust, because you don't see results right away, so you have to trust what you're doing.
Johnna:And then I think something else that like something I struggled with. I used to weigh myself every day and I would do the same thing you mentioned earlier. You said if I jumped on the scale and I was one pound over, you'd be like, oh no, I used to do the same thing. But like now that I've done research and I know that women's weight fluctuates anywhere between five to seven pounds on a day, in a day, based on what you're eating, based on how much water you've had, how much, how little water, you wouldn't be surprised, like, if you don't have a lot of water, you actually weigh more because your body's trying to pull all the water everywhere. Um, I'll recommend, when I do clients like, weigh once a week on your check-in day so that way you're not constantly going, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, because your weight is going to fluctuate. And then when I have clients that are like, hey, I'm going out of town this week, I'm like, live your life and come back, but go ahead and know you're probably going to be three to five pounds quote unquote up on the scale, but that is complete water weight. It will come down at your next check-in because you're eating foods that you're not used to. So just knowing those things kind of help ease your mind a little bit. But it also helps to have someone there, because I remember when I was working with the coach, I was just like I would always have those freak out moments. I was like are you sure? Are you sure this is you know. But now that I've done it for so long, I'm like, if I like gain three pounds, I'm like, yeah, it's because I drank last night. You know, it's like and it's going to come off. So just knowing those things and I hate to like, we're kind of like, but I mean, that's what this podcast is about, it's just, you know.
Johnna:There I truly think that there are a lot of people that struggle with these thoughts and I have a lot of girlfriends that you know struggle with these thoughts and talk to me about it. And my whole mission in life is I want all women to be like oh, I can eat more, and like that's, and we also. And when I'm coaching, I also have to coach and say let's stop focusing about a number on the scale, let's just throw that number away. Like, I know everyone's like, but I want to be 120 pounds or throw that away. That may not be where your body wants to be.
Johnna:And sometimes you're thinking about a number with a certain body image that you have in your mind, and maybe it's just that you need to lift heavy, heavy, heavy weights to get that body image you want. And it's not about the number, maybe. Maybe you look great at 140. And you have the body image that you want and you're like oh, this is what I've been wanting and you didn't realize it was just that you weren't lifting heavy enough weights, you were doing cardio all the time.
Meenu:So how does that play in? Like you know, because it's so interesting People like talk about cardio and people talk about weights. It's like is it each body type that has to do different things? Is it different goals? What actually ends up giving you lasting results, according to you like cardio or weight training, or both?
Johnna:So yeah, so it's about goals, right? So steady state cardio is kind of a thing of the past. I don't know a lot of people that do it anymore. Just because the research is around weight training and I'm not talking about five and 10 pounds, that's not really going to do much. Like I'm talking about, like, obviously, when I'm, when I throw out my numbers this is not telling people to do this.
Johnna:I have trained for a long time and I fueled my body enough that, like, when I'm doing squats now I'm doing 205 pounds, you know I'm dead lifting 205 pounds. I'm now to you 110 pound squat may be very heavy for you and that's fine as long as it's heavy for your body. But when someone says, yeah, I'm just doing a 30 pound squat, you know we're not talking about those numbers. Basically, where weight lifting comes in is it's going to give you more bang for your buck, because you're building your muscle up and you're also tearing your muscle down. So to build a muscle and to tear it down, you're burning a lot of calories to do that and it's a longer form of burn. So during the weightlifting process you're burning because that's when you're tearing the muscles apart, and then I can't remember the hours, I'd have to look it up. But like, let's say, like 12 hours later, you're still burning calories because now your muscle is repairing.
Johnna:Oh, okay, now with cardio, but a lot of people because we're stuck on instant gratification. So if you're wearing an Apple watch or if you're looking at, you're not going to see that high number calorie on your watch you might say, oh, it showed 250 calories that you burned at that moment. You got to think about the 12 hours later that you're still burning calories. Now you go for a run. You only burn calories at that moment of the run.
Meenu:That's right Now, it's great, wow, yeah, okay, so cardio is wonderful.
Johnna:We all need it for our heart health. You know all the things. Like we, you should be able to be able to run away from somebody. You know there's reasons for it and it does help with fat loss. However, steady state cardio is more cortisol spiking than weightlifting. Now, the trainer that I have she's wonderful. She programs my weightlifting to where I'm doing cardio during my weightlifting like I have to take breaks in between because I'm like my heart rates up to 180. I'm sweating profusely. It's a cardio weightlifting at the same time.
Meenu:Okay, that makes sense. Okay. So both have different purpose and both are beneficial in some ways. But if you're looking at long term and you're looking at not instant gratification, weight lifting might be might be one to focus on.
Johnna:And with cardio steady state cardio, like you can lose fat. Most women, when they say I want to be skinny or thin, I already know what they mean. They mean they want to be toned, they want to have muscle definition. That's what they're wanting. Steady state cardio. Unless you have great genetics, is you probably not going to get you there it's going to be example of a steady state cardio.
Meenu:What is a steady state cardio?
Johnna:steady state cardio would be running um, stair climber, elliptical, where all you're doing is just cardio activity. And steady state means you're not doing intervals, so like if you're doing sprinting or something like that, you're just doing steady state, like you're running at the same pace for 30 minutes. Yeah, and then when it comes to weightlifting, weightlifting is going to build that muscle. Now you may need to do a little bit of steady state cardio after your weight lifting, depending on if you're getting enough cardio during that to help lose the fat on top of the muscle. So, and then you'll have some people that say, well, muscle weighs more than fat, and it does, but you have to be very compact and dense for it to like be different, like dramatically different if that makes sense, but a lot of women like that's how I was.
Johnna:I was like I want to be 120 pounds and then when I got there I was like why do I still not look like what I want to in my mind? Because I wanted that athletic like quads, shoulders popping, that's what I wanted. And then finally I had to realize, okay, well, we need to start lifting more, like you doing. You know, cycling classes and all this stuff. It's just not going to get you there. That's what worked for me. Now, everyone is different and I highly advise.
Meenu:Right, I mean, I mean I don't have the same goals as you. I mean I want to be fit, but you know I don't want to necessarily be. You know, have like the way you have it Like. You know, I've seen you lifting stuff. You posted on Instagram and I'm like oh, my God.
Johnna:Yeah, but here's the thing there's a lot of women that'll. I don't want to be bulky. We don't have enough testosterone to be bulky, unless, genetically, your predispositions to have higher testosterone. Do you know how hard it is for women to build muscle? Period, end of story. Not to mention, if we don't have muscle and we don't at least lift weight some and not just lifting weights like going for a walk, like using weight bearing activity, we have more propensity to become osteoporotic and have osteopenia, which you need muscles surrounding your bone to protect it, right, so we have to focus on that.
Johnna:So when I go to the gym, like it's not, it used to be for aesthetic purposes only. It's no longer that way for me. It it truly is a de-stressor for me in my life. I enjoy it. Now. I took this week off because I was on vacation and I'm so ready to go back on Sunday, right, but I've enjoyed my week off, like I've been like, oh, it's not. And long gone are the days where I get up at four o'clock in the morning and go to the gym and lose sleep. I, in my personal life now I'm trying to work on lowering cholesterol, or not cholesterol cortisol my cholesterol is fine guys. Lowering cortisol, which means, if I have to skip a workout to get more sleep in, that's what it's going to be for me. I'm not going to be like, oh, I've got to get up at three o'clock in the morning to go to the gym and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Nope, long days are those gone.
Meenu:So it's like prioritizing, depending on, like, what you need. So I have a question for you, and this is fundamentally somebody that absolutely when I say absolutely does not like to work out. I don't like to work out. I'm active, I'm always on my feet, that's all that matters. You know, I'm walking around the house. I'm doing eight to 10K steps a day. We're just walking around the house, taking my dog out. We go for runs. We walking around the house, taking my dog out, we go for runs, we go for like brisk walks. But I just don't like to go to the gym and I just don't like to work out. And I think the workouts that I particularly enjoy are like walking, maybe some yoga, maybe swimming, maybe lifting weights which are like very, not that heavy, you know, just lifting like lightweights. I don't think there's that. Is that good enough?
Johnna:Yes, Okay, I think that's good enough, so I think that anybody should do what works for them when it comes to physical activity. I enjoy walking. I used to love running, I used to run all the time, and now I don't enjoy it anymore. But I'll go for a 30 minute walk and I enjoy it anymore. But I'll go for a 30 minute walk and I enjoy it.
Meenu:So let's say, if someone's listening to this and they like want to get started, right, and they have a lot of resistance to everything, they just have a lot of resistance to what you're saying probably eat more, like that's a resistance. And then you're saying, okay, move your body. So where, where would somebody begin if they are interested and they're finally ready and they're probably being in a situation that I was, where I'm just like, okay, nothing else is working. May as well try it.
Johnna:Well, it's hard. I will say, without speaking to individuals, just kind of like how you do coaching. It's hard. I would say hire a coach. I know a lot of people don't have the income to do that, but I think it's well worth it just to get education. And if you can't afford a coach, there are calculators online. I know people use MyFitnessPal and stuff like that. I would just be wary of them, because if you don't know where your calorie set point is now and whatever that calculator calculates for you because sometimes we as humans, we overs what we're doing, like when it comes to fitness, we'll be like, oh, I'm a heavy exerciser, when really you might be a mild exerciser.
Johnna:You know, you might think well, I walk every day and it's 10 000 steps. Well, to me that would be considered like mild to moderate. It's not. It's not. You're not lifting heavy. That's going to require you to have those extra calories.
Johnna:Um, so when I calculate, like when I calculated your macros, I already know what we talk. We have a long discussion and I'm like okay, based on what you're telling me you're doing, this is where I'm going to put you. This is the deficit. And we talk about it like and then, and then we can adjust if it's not working. If you're like, hey, I'm too hungry, we adjust. If you're losing weight too fast, we adjust. If you're not losing weight. If you're losing weight too fast, we adjust. If you're not losing weight, we look at things and say, well, where can we make swaps and stuff like that? So if someone was going to start out and they don't have the income, I would say probably just Google. Like macros, reverse dieting. Will Cole's really good about talking about this stuff online. My coach, carrie Coach Carrie. I interviewed her. I'll put her name in the show notes. She's really good about putting content on Instagram that's trustworthy, where she talks about this stuff, and she does a lot of lower price, like what's it called?
Meenu:Like a program.
Johnna:It's a program where you just work with her for four weeks, but it's not like a full one on one. Okay, I got it. Yeah, but yeah, I would start there. There like just getting reliable sources, like functional doctors, not these people that are like, if people to avoid that's easier. If someone's coming at you with a 1200 calorie diet, a thousand calorie diet, or if they're telling you to only eat certain foods, yeah, that's a straight one right, that's like the.
Meenu:It's like how you find red flags in men. That's like the red flags, yeah, coaches and health coaches and you know all these things. So, no, absolutely like. That was eye-opening for me when we were together because it was like I I remember like I, Jonah, I have some inflammation issues. And Jonah was like you know, I think you need to read Wilco's inflammation spectrum and I was like, wow, okay, so I read his book and we basically did our macros and then we came up with a plan. So basically, guys, I was eating so much more, I like increased my calories. Eventually. Now I'm eating around 1500, 1600. Right, and I increased it from 600, 700. And I think around the fourth week I was kind of blown away because I started losing weight. And that's when I told you. I said I was like I can't believe.
Johnna:And then you were like, and I'm very hungry. And I was like all right, girl'll like increase them some more if you're hungry.
Meenu:It was awesome. So you know. Another thing that I really want to talk about is like, yes, societal things, societal shaming, uh, body shaming, weight shaming, all those things. And then we have all these like glp1 drugs, we have all these things. So the way I like talk to my clients and this is not about fitness, right I'll just tell, I'll just be like you, do what works for you. Yeah, there's no right, there's no wrong. It's, it's not that this is wrong. There's no need to shame people who do that. There's no need to shame people that get surgeries. Why do we, you know? And so I feel like sometimes we do that based there's no need to shame people that get surgeries. Why do we, you know? And so I feel like sometimes we do that based on our like, own conditions and limitations. Yeah for sure, talk about that, because it's like what if that is a good option for them?
Johnna:And sometimes I think that it could be coming from a little bit of jealousy, which you would like you would probably be more to say yeah, for sure, because you're the coach on that aspect. But I think that sometimes, like for instance I've talked about, I've openly talked about me being on manjaro, uh, heterodosimpic. I'm on a very, very low dose, maintenance dose. I started taking it. I think I did an episode maybe three years ago and the reason why they put me on it was because I kept, like you know, I I had that. We talked about me being 22 and like getting the 40 pounds with my thyroid. That started happening again during If three. Was it COVID? Yes, oh, during COVID. You know very stressful environment. You are my thyroid. I got the COVID vaccine. My thyroid was kind of crazy all over the place and we couldn't figure it out and I had gained like 30 pounds again. So she put me on a low dose of it and was like there's research that this is helping autoimmune diseases and thyroids. Guys, this is not again, talk to your doctor. This is what happened to me. So my doctor was like you know, it's helping with hormones and stuff like that. Also, she mentioned like all my hormones were perimenopausal when I was 30 years old, so I had all that going on as well and I was not ready to go on hormone supplementation at 30, which that was way before all this stuff. So I was already having two things kind of work against me my thyroid and my hormones. So I was like you know what? I've tried everything, I had done everything. At that point I'd worked on everything myself, like I hired a nutrition coach, I hired a fitness coach, I was taking all these courses just to be like something is not right, like I was doing doing the gluten-free diet, the dairy, I was doing the autoimmune protocol and I was still gaining weight. So I was like I'm willing to try it. So I tried it. I lost the weight. Oddly enough, my thyroid got better, my hormones got better and they were like well. So every time I try to come off of it, my thyroid labs go back crazy. So I've talked to my doctor about it. I have some weird metabolic dysfunction. He thinks I have PCOS, like undiagnosed or whatnot, and which is a whole sugar thing. And so, yeah, I have taken GL-1s. I'm not opposed to people taking glp-1s. I don't judge people for taking glp-1s.
Johnna:I was very hesitant to do that podcast. I was working with you at the time and I was like, hey, I'm, I really want to share this because I think it was something in me that I wanted to share it and I was like, but I'm also scared of the criticism that could come with it, because there are people that do it. That's with anything in life. There are people that abuse. Because there are people that do it, that's with anything in life. There are people that abuse it. There are people that abuse anything, whether it be opioid pain medication, you know, and it just kind of ruins the name for everyone else.
Johnna:But yes, I do think there's a time and a place for that. Where I think we fail is the edge. Like I mentioned at the very beginning of this podcast, healthcare providers don't have nutrition education not all. Some, you know, some do not all. But I think that we're not coaching our patients with these medications. So there are people on these medications and then they're under eating with the medications, which then starts that whole cycle of metabolism issues, thyroid issues, hormone issues, and you're back in the same cycle as if you were under eating on your own.
Meenu:Right and I think, very important thing that nobody has ever said this before you, which kind of blew my mind was if you eat real foods, you're not going to. You know, you're actually going to lose inflammation, and so can we talk about what those are? Because people think a protein bar is real food. It's not real, right?
Johnna:so I you know I try and I still do this, but I try not to call foods good or bad, but just because of my own mindset, you know. But there's nutrient dense foods and then there's less nutrient dense food. So, like I, when I coach someone, like, if someone like I look at your food log and I'm like, okay, well, we can make these swaps. So, like you're talking about, like protein bars, depending on what protein bar you pick up, if you look at the ingredients and you can't read half of them, it's not real food. It's just a lot of chemicals, it's a lot of seed oils, it's just sugar, whatever it's. Basically I've seen this and I wish I had it. But there's, there's a meme that goes around that's basically like why not just eat the candy bar versus the protein bar? It's the exact same amount of sugar, sugar, carbs, everything's. The only difference in a, some of the protein bars and a candy bar is the protein content. That is the only difference. Candy bars, not real food, you know so things.
Johnna:So like I'll just list what I've ate today because, because that'll be helpful. So like, every morning I'm a creature of habit. I oatmeal pancakes, I grind up oats into flour, I put stevia in there, you know baking powder, some coconut yogurt and coconut milk, and then I do blueberries, cook them, have me for pancakes every morning, and then I also have meat with it. I used to have eggs, found out that eggs hurt my stomach. So now, like I do grass fed, grass finished beef If I can get pasture raised poultry, I'll do that. I try to get organic. If I can't get pasture raised poultry, I get organic. Now I will say I'm very fortunate that I can afford that. I do get butcher box subscription. So for me the meat lasts like four months and it's coming from better quality sources.
Johnna:Because if we think about this standardized meat or whatnot, like Tyson chicken everyone knows Tyson chicken they're feeding those animals soy, corn and dairy, hormones and antibiotics. Why are they doing that? To fatten them as quickly as possible. Because they want them to grow fast so they can get them produced fast. What do you think?
Johnna:Just because you're not eating dairy, corn, soy and antibiotics and hormones doesn't mean you're not getting the second hand from it, from eating the meat, so it's also fattening you. So I understand that some people have to get that kind of meat. But if you, if you can which I do think that they're trying to make grass fed, grass finish more affordable, I think. Like at Walmart, like a pound of beef is like 599. Now some people though it'd be like 599 for a pound. To me that is cheaper than it used to be used to be $10. I think that that helps if you can do that because, like I said, all the other stuff is conventionally raised and it's very inflammatory. If you can avoid seed oils, so things like canola oil, vegetable oil, I'm trying to think those are the two that I typically will try my best not to eat.
Meenu:Fun vegetable is what's used in most restaurants. Right yeah, it is.
Johnna:It is. It's just very inflammatory. They just kind of throw everything in the sink into it. So I try to use avocado oil, coconut oil, olive oil. You got to be careful with olive oil because it's like bigger than the drug cartel market, like people switch olive oil out with canola oil, so got to be careful with that. But then and then I try to. So if you're going to the grocery store, stay on the parameters. That's where the quote-unquote whole foods are. You're gonna have your meat, your dairy, your eggs um, your fruit and your produce all on the edges. If you go into the aisles, that's when you're getting non-real food substances that's a really good like.
Meenu:That itself like opened my eyes so much because the way I was seeing it is like if I can eat 100 calories of protein bar and I'm eating one and a half apples, which is 100 calories, it's still 100 calories. But then this is real and this isn't so. It just for me it was not just about the calories. It was eye opening because real foods don't have an inflammatory effect on the body. Right, I have inflammation issues, so that was a big eye opening thing for me.
Johnna:And some can. So if you're thinking about real food, so like soy, corn and dairy are quote unquote real food. But depending on how they're made and where they're coming from, corn and soy in America are the most highly processed foods. Just because we're spraying a lot of pesticides on them, we're putting a lot of growth hormone out there so that they can produce it, because we use corn and everything High fructose, corn syrup, all the things right, like we use so much corn. So you just have to think about the source.
Johnna:But if you're trying to make small changes, I would just say try to make small swaps. Like if you're doing a protein bar, say, try to make small swaps. Like if you're doing a protein bar, look at if it's a protein bar that says, like an apple protein bar, make your own. You say I know there's a lot of people that are like I don't have time to do that, and I completely understand. But I do think that we do have time for the things that we want to make time for. And my thing is is in 15 years and 10 years, if you're sitting in a doctor's office all the time, do you have time to do that?
Meenu:Exactly, Exactly, Like, and that's so true. If it like matters to you, you will like. I think when you told me, oh, start tracking calories. At first I had resistance. I'm like, oh my God, I have to put in everything. But now I just do it automatically, Like I think about it a second later and when I don't do it, I'm like, oh crap, I forgot to put this in. Like you know, and it's now for me it's become like a tool of awareness to know, like what I put in my body and the macros and things like that. So I think, if it matters to you, you'll start taking the small steps.
Meenu:And I think one thing which I really want to point out is when John has told me that it's not all or nothing, like you don't have to, Like I had to go to Universal Studios and I was like, oh my God, like I'm doing this anti-inflammation protocol, like I'm going to the universe, Like should I continue? And I had like all plans and intentions of only eating bananas for two days. And then I remember John was like, don't do that. Like that will actually once again, it like brings back bad relationship. Like that will actually once again. It like brings back bad relationship You're. You had the food, which is good and bad, so you should let yourself have it and then come back and just like restart.
Johnna:Well, and I love that. When you said that, um, when you came back and you were like I didn't do it and I feel great and I'm back on it and that you're, it's so right and I I've learned with me personally, if I cause in college, I would be like I'm not having sweets, I'm not having this, I'm not, not, not, not, not. One time at my friend's birthday party she had a huge cookie cake. I'm not talking about the round ones, I'm talking about the big square ones. I ate every single thing and left her one piece.
Meenu:Oh, I believe you. It's like the pink elephant, it's the pink elephant theory.
Johnna:It's about it? Suddenly, it's all pink elephants, yeah, and so, like, if you give yourself a little bit of grace and you, you can, and it's more sustainable, right? Which? Going back, I said let me tell you what I ate in a day, and I only gave you my breakfast. Guys, I ate more than that. I was just I stopped, but anyways, um, it's all perspective, it's all about what you're ready to do, and I know it can seem so daunting it can.
Johnna:If you're trying to do and I know it can seem so daunting it can if you're trying to navigate this world of nutrition where we know the food nutrition world is corrupt anyways, and like it's almost like they're trying to make us sick. Who knows, that's a conspiracy theory, but, um, it's hard to navigate because you're like, well, this person, if you go on tiktok or instagram and you start looking at stuff, everything, somebody somewhere is going to tell you something is bad for you, yeah, yeah, no matter what it is dairy's milk is bad for you, Almond milk is bad for you. This is bad for you. That's bad for you that someone somewhere is going to. You have to find what works for you and what you believe in and what you can find that is sustainable for you, as long as you're trying to make the healthiest choice for yourself and whatever disease processes you have going on. That's all I care about.
Meenu:Okay, I have a very interesting question, since we're talking about this. It's like so I follow this person called Glucose Goddess yeah, same yeah, yeah, yeah. So she thinks oats are like oats is dessert. Oats is not healthy. Oats are actually dessert and I love oats, like I. You know they have high form of protein. They really helped me feel very satiated, like I love cooking things in oat flour. Like you know, there's recipes that I have. So what is your like? So when somebody like that, who's an influencer, who's done research in a different way, and when they say that and it just like so contradictory to like what you're doing, do you also for that? Then say, like, check in with your body and do what works best for you.
Johnna:Yeah, so I follow her too. I think a lot of her stuff is really good, but she also. You have to kind of do more research because she makes different posts about different things. So oats are actually really good. Oats have fiber, protein, carbs in them. They, if you eat them by themselves because of of the way they are sure it's going to spike your glucose, just like just like white compare it to white rice is going to spike your. So she always tries to give you tips and tricks to lower that. If you're going to eat them, she never tells you not to eat anything. She's like if you're going to eat them, pair them with something that's going to bring down that glucose spike.
Meenu:I remember she calls it. Where does it dress up your carbs?
Johnna:Yeah, so like what if you don't? So for me, for my breakfast every morning, I have oats every morning. Have had for the past 10 years, okay, and I have. I eat my protein first before I eat my carbs, just to help decrease that protein spike. And I also have. I have a. Usually I have grass fed grass finished beef in the morning, so it's got fat in it. So I've got a fat and a protein and I'll put avocado on top of it and I eat that before I eat my pancakes okay, that makes sense, okay.
Meenu:So it's all about the order and dressing it up, and it's not necessarily good or bad, it's just, you know it's. It's. It's the way you eat it.
Johnna:That and, like I said, you will find someone to say something about everything you will Like. There was this one TikTok one time and if I had it, it was so funny. It was like this person walking through the grocery store and people were yelling at him like don't eat eggs, they're bad for you, don't eat the egg whites, the cholesterol, don't eat this. Looking back and forth like I don't know who to listen to. Like because there's always going to be opinions and things are going to change. Like new research is going to come out. Like I personally think whole eggs are wonderful. I love eggs. I found I was having a lot of like stomach issues and like a lot of pain and I finally figured it out that it was the eggs. I'll still eat them, but not every day like I was.
Meenu:So it's a combination of listening to the people that you resonate with and then a combination of what your body needs and what your goals are in terms of fitness and where you want to be and how much you want to lose. I think it's very individualized. Is what you're saying?
Johnna:You just never take everything, just don't take everything, yeah, and it's not an all or nothing. For example, I was vegetarian for nine months because I really wanted to consume less meat, until I did some research, realizing that it was the type of meats that we're consuming that's causing colon cancer and stuff like that. I do truly believe that and increase cholesterol and all that. But the reason why I chose to come off the vegetarianism is because I went fully gluten free for my, because there's a lot of research saying that gluten mimics the thyroid gland and when you have it it can send out the autoimmune spikes or whatnot, and it hurts my stomach. So I was like, okay, if I'm going fully gluten-free.
Johnna:A lot of meat substitutes have gluten in them, so I can't do that, so I need to pick a better quality meat source. That's going to make me feel better about the economy. You know, the animal welfare, all the things, and I'm fortunate enough that I can afford this. So that's what I chose to do for me. Not that being a vegan or vegetarian is bad, it's just something that I personally was like. All these meat substitutes that I'm eating to get my protein intake in have a lot of fillers, seed oils and gluten in them and I would rather just have a higher quality source of food and get rid of that right and I think it's also another thing that that goes around.
Meenu:A lot is like when people say oh, I'm vegan and I'm vegetarian and you know, doritos are vegan Oreos are you know? So I think it's not just about being, like you said, not all or nothing. It's whatever you're deciding to do, like make sure you're choosing correctly. Yeah intention.
Johnna:true, true, um. We could talk about this for like days to come, like there's so much that could be said, but if I was giving like just some like top tips, like to help somebody, it would be like truly listen to yourself If you know you're under eating or if you know that you have poor you know relationship with food. I think that working with someone would be the best thing that you could ever do, because if I didn't work with someone when I did, I would have not even known that I had thyroid issues. Like she's the one who caught it because I was following her steps.
Johnna:Right, if you can't do that, then try to make, you know, wise decisions. When it comes to like ingredients, like I said, if you can't read the ingredients, it's kind of like when we say like shampoo. Like if you can't read the shampoo bottle ingredients and you're just like what is this? You probably don't need it. Yeah, you know, and that's not to say that I still don't eat crap. I just went to New York for a week, you know, had the best time. I ate horrible, not even a lot, and I enjoyed every minute of it. And now I'm back at home and I'm meal prepping again and for me meal prepping works. I know some people are like I have a family that doesn't work for me. You just kind of have to find what works for you, and I know that's easier, like when when someone's sitting there like just tell me what to do, I can't unless I'm working with you.
Johnna:And second of all, every single person is different, and what works for me may not work for you.
Meenu:Yes, that is so true. Thank you so much for like all the clarity I think I mean for me personally. I decided to be on this episode because it like opened my eyes with the eating less thing and then eating real foods and all or nothing and starvation mode and fasting and fat diets. I think it was just eye opening for me on so many levels that all these like quick fixes, it's just a scheme to make money, it's just it's instant gratification at the end of the day, like if you're not consistent and you don't put in the effort and you're not intentional, you are going to gain the weight back whatever you do.
Johnna:Yeah, I do. But all right, guys, we will end it here. So if you have any questions, just send us a message. We always love to answer the questions and I will link some people down below that I think are very reliable sources. So just go to the show notes and you will see like where I kind of get some information from that. That might be a little bit more helpful. I know we were all over the place with this episode, per usual, but until next time, guys. Bye, thank you, you.
