Babbles Nonsense
Welcome to my verbal diary where I want to discuss any and all things that is essentially on my mind or have wondered about. Sometimes I will be solo and then other times I will have some amazing guests to bring all different perspectives in life. The ultimate goal is to hopefully bring some joy, laughter, inspiration, education, and just maybe a little bit of entertainment. Don't forget to like, rate, and share the podcast with a friend!
Babbles Nonsense
Navigating Love and Control: Unpacking Toxic Dynamics in Relationships w/ Meenu
#163: What happens when love becomes a battlefield? Join us as we welcome back Meenu to the Babbles Nonsense Podcast, where she sheds light on the oft-blurred lines between affection and control. Drawing from her own life and cultural insights, Meenu challenges societal norms that glorify toxic masculinity and unpacks the myth that loving more means losing. Together, we uncover the hidden signs of controlling behaviors in relationships, whether they be romantic, familial, or platonic, and provide guidance on how to navigate and reclaim the narrative around these dynamics.
Have you ever found yourself losing your sense of self in a relationship? We explore this delicate balance in discussing codependency, emphasizing the power of positive self-talk and the dangers of expecting a partner to meet all emotional needs. With wisdom gleaned from my aunt's enduring marriage, we highlight the importance of maintaining individuality while nurturing healthy connections. This conversation reveals how codependency can affect not only romantic partnerships but friendships, urging listeners to find a harmony between closeness and independence to foster fulfilling relationships.
Shifting focus to the emotionally tumultuous dance of hot and cold relationships, Meenu bravely shares personal revelations of over-apologizing and being manipulated. These patterns often stem from unresolved childhood trauma, highlighting the necessity of self-validation and courage. We discuss how to recognize and resist emotional abuse and narcissistic tendencies, emphasizing the journey of personal growth and self-awareness. By building a strong sense of identity and understanding one's values, listeners can break free from toxic cycles and cultivate healthier, more empowering connections.
Find Meenu here:
https://www.instagram.com/https://www.instagram.com/transcendencebymeenu/
You can now send us a text to ask a question or review the show. We would love to hear from you!
PodMatchPodMatch Automatically Matches Ideal Podcast Guests and Hosts For Interviews
Follow me on social: https://www.instagram.com/babbles_nonsense/
What is up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense Podcast. We have Minyu back today. She is leading the conversation on the different types of toxic relationships, whether that be a romantic relationship, platonic, or in your family or friendships and she is also giving you tips and tricks on how to identify that early on and how to navigate your way out of that if you find yourself in one.
Meenu:If you think you could be in a toxic relationship or can relate, this episode is for you okay, guys, we are back with a very interesting episode today and it's all about toxicity toxicity mainly in relationships, but we don't want to limit to that. Yes, there's family dynamics, like, but the main subject is going to be relationships, and I know that if you're listening to this, if you're an adult, pretty sure you would have had at least one or two instances where the other person has been super toxic or even you have been toxic in that situation. So we're here to break it all down and Jonna has a lot of like examples to share. I have a lot of examples to share. We're not going to name names, but we are going to reflect on certain things that have happened to us so that it's relatable for you guys. So you're not alone in this.
Johnna:So there we go. Yeah, I love that. Mean you is going to share some examples too. She is definitely the expert leading this. I'm only the expert in being in toxic relationships, so that's that's my expertise that I'm bringing to the table that is also wisdom.
Meenu:Okay, like I mean, you're gonna say this is toxic and you're you're gonna point out that you have experience. Then we all can learn from that. So there you go. Experience speaks louder ebook any, anything. So talking about that there's. There's just so many you know.
Meenu:And we're in this day and age right now where toxic has just become such a commonly used term. So we're here to like break down how that can translate in romantic relationships. Like the first type that I have come across because of the culture that I come from and my exposure and the people that I've dated in the past, is definitely the controlling type, like a very controlling relationship, like lots of I'm not saying all of them, but you know back, you know back in the 70s, back in the 80s, you know even in the 90s, like from where I come from, men told women what to do all the time. And I'm not saying women are not controlling, but we're not talking about how men are only controlling. I'm just saying control generally in a relationship and a romantic relationship is very, very toxic.
Meenu:And when I say control I don't mean, oh, I tell you what to eat, I tell you what to wear, I tell you what to wear. It can even be something like I remember one of my exes. He was like oh, I need to know where you go all the time and I need to. It actually went to another level where he was like if I'm meeting up with my best friend and I'm having a conversation, he wanted to know every detail and everything about the conversation. And I was like at first I thought, and then he would like justify it by saying oh, I just like really love you and I want to be a part of everything that you do. I just want to be involved.
Johnna:But I was like is that controlling or is that narcissistic?
Meenu:Both yeah, because.
Johnna:I was like that sounds. That sounds like he's a little bit more leaning towards a narcissistic person. Like I know we throw around narcissists a little bit too much, you know, but that, with everything that you said, sounds more narcissistic. But I mean, narcissists are very controlling, are very controlling, exactly.
Meenu:so he, he was definitely very controlling and it's almost like it's it's harmful when you put the word love in it and it's toxic because, like back where I come from, people make movies around the subject where really yeah, it's like they show that as like very powerful masculinity. I'm like no, that's toxic masculinity, it's not masculinity, it's not powerful, it's not healthy.
Johnna:Have you ever heard that phrase that says it's something along it's it's not powerful, it's not healthy? Have you ever heard that phrase that says it's something along the lines of like whoever loves the least wins the most? Like whoever, so whoever loves the other person least wins. What is I'm getting? I'm probably butchering it, but basically the way what the saying is saying like is whoever loves the person the most is going to lose. Like if there's a breakup or something because you're going to get your heart shattered, the other person's going to be able to move on. So whoever loves the most loses it's. You keep talking. I'm going to look up this phrase because now that's going to bother me that I don't.
Meenu:They're very interesting. I have not heard of that, but it does. I mean people do use love as a weapon in these scenarios, like on and over and over again. So you know, if anybody ever feels like there's control, if you ever feel like there's control and they're using the term love, whether you're a male or a female listening to this, I want you to understand that that's not healthy. It, you know, it does come under the toxic category.
Johnna:So I found it. So thank God that Google has AI now, but I'm glad it doesn't offend you for me to bring up Google and we'll just leave it at that. So it says the idea that, quote unquote the one who loves more always loses. Quote is a common belief, and the reason why this belief might seem true is power dynamics. When one person loves significantly more, it can create a power imbalance where the partner who loves less might feel less obligated to reciprocate fully, potentially leading to feelings of being taken for granted by the one who loves more, and then like fear of rejection, unrealistic expectations and stuff like that. So it's along the lines of being like in a toxic relationship when the power because it brings. Honestly, that's how all my relationship has been, so I think I can relate to it, because I was always the one that cared more for the other person and you could kind of tell that they held the power in that, because then I would pretty much do whatever, say whatever. Does that make sense?
Johnna:yeah, yeah yeah, that's a lot of sense huh interesting, so like love like the love there like, which is already an unhealthy balance, right, like because no one like you shouldn't be, it shouldn't be like that. And number one, that should have been red flags set off on me and I. But it just basically starts that chasing game and and so then it's not that they I'm not saying they automatically know like, oh my gosh, I have the power, but it, that's what it is like subconsciously. There's like they hold that power because they know subconsciously that they could withdraw and I'm going to chase, and then it's going to make that power imbalance even stronger right, and it makes the dependency even stronger.
Meenu:Yeah, and yeah, absolutely, I mean it's. It's so interesting because I don't know what that comes under. I don't think it comes under control, but it is. It is a power dynamic, for sure. It is a power dynamic which I feel like if it is imbalanced, it is toxic. Yeah, it is toxic, no doubts. And then the other type of relationships is like very codependent relationships. Right, that can be like very, very toxic. Um, again also gone through this with one of my exes and where you know he was just like I need to be a part of all your plans, I need all of it. How can you do this with your cousin and not tell me I'm like what? Yeah, you know, that's what I'm trying to say. It's like people can bring all that into the dynamic in the name of love, which then, when we know it's toxic, yeah, it's completely toxic. And people also think like codependent oh, codependent is good, it's lovey, dovey, it's that's how it should be.
Johnna:No right, we in nursing school we actually were required to read the book codependent no more in our psychology class, because nurses tend to be the ones that are codependent, because we always feel gratification from like serving others and stuff like that.
Johnna:And so they made us read it and it was very interesting when I read it because I was like, oh wow, I am this way like very codependent on others telling me how I feel and you know, if they're not happy, I'm not happy. That kind of codependency and as I've worked with you and you know, if they're not happy I'm not happy, that kind of codependency. And as I've worked with you and you know, worked through therapy, I've worked through that. And then now I see it in other types of relationships and not just romantic, but I see it in some of my friends who are moms where they're codependent on their children, like because they don't feel worthy if they're not. You know, like the mom guilt and stuff like that. So they become codependent on their child to like feel that love or feel that I'm good, I'm great feeling about any type of toxic relationship.
Meenu:Like lots of parents I've seen, which it really. I'm not a parent, I don't plan on having kids, but lots of parents that I see are are you know. They put this expectation onto their children that they have to make them happy. So the kids, it's almost. It is a toxic relationship, right, but you feel something lacking in you. So now you have to fulfill your unfulfilled dreams through your child.
Johnna:Right. And then I mean we know we've talked about on this podcast several times that that's where we learn, um, like that's where the childhood trauma comes from. So if that's your first, which, that's all our first relationships, right, Like that's what they say, Like daughters look up to their fathers and like how um sons look up to their moms, like when it comes to like the opposite sex and relationships. So how many kids do you know that have been like, oh yeah, my dad's my boyfriend, and I know that sounds like we're like what, Like you've seen that, like you were like daddy, daughter dances and stuff like that.
Johnna:So that's your first relationship you're building in your head, and that's why a lot of women will marry someone like their father. Vice versa, men will marry someone like their mom, because that's what you're drawn to.
Meenu:That's what you're drawn to know. I fully, fully agree with that, fully agree with that. So again, codependency Also. You know it's really interesting, it's like it's romanticized.
Johnna:I'm really is.
Meenu:Yeah, I'm just saying look at it for what it is. Anytime you feel suffocated, recognize the suffocation. Recognize that. Anytime you feel needy, or you are needy, recognize that you are chasing because you're, there's something in you which is fundamentally unfilled pointing her finger to herself.
Johnna:I mean, that's how a lot of my relationship have been and just like talking, like that's how I grew up, and I don't know how to say like I was very codependent on my mom because my dad was very neglectful and wasn't there, and then I became so much and then when my father passed away, when I was such a young age, like I never wanted to leave my mom's side. I was like, you know, I got to make her happy. My sister's always in trouble, you know. I got to be the good one and so, like I was very codependent on her, telling me I was doing a good job, I was a good daughter, you know, and it bled through into my adult relationships.
Meenu:But it's so amazing that you recognize this. I mean, I think that that is the first step like you know.
Johnna:I mean, come on, let's be honest, this happened in. What a year and a half of knowing you?
Meenu:but it's still good that you recognize. I mean, jonna has this, she does this thing, guys, which is she talks shit about herself, and I always, I'm always like, don't do that, because it you. Yes, I understand that it's humor and it's joke, but your subconscious doesn't understand the difference between humor and what's wrong, and so it's for me. I'm a coach, so I'm like, oh my god, don't say those things I'm like. To me it's like, oh, your, your body is believing it, your subconscious is believing it.
Johnna:I know I've got to be better because I just do, because I've always been the type of person that has been like if, if I say it out loud first, then nobody else is, somebody else says that it doesn't matter. I've already said it first, so you can't hurt my feelings.
Meenu:Okay that that makes sense. Yes, so codependency, not romantic codependency, not cute, relying on you know each other for every little thing, Not, okay Check?
Johnna:yourself and something I will say that that my aunt has always talked to me about like I obviously have not been in a long-term relationship. I've talked on here about how, like I was really codependent on someone for a very long time and his love and whatever finally got past that. Thankful for you for that menu. And, um, my aunt has always told me like she was married she was married for 40 years, 30 or 40 years prior to her husband passing away at a young age because he got esophageal cancer and she says that she was very thankful that they had such a healthy relationship because if they were codependent on each other, she doesn't know what she would have done once he passed away, because she has had friends in the same situation where they gave up their friends or they wouldn't go out with their friends and they didn't have a life outside of the relationship because they were so codependent on the relationship that when their significant other passed away or heaven forbid, you know got a divorce, they just they fell apart and they didn't know what to do.
Meenu:Right, you know and I really at some level I relate to it because you know it's sometimes when you're very compatible and you enjoy the time with your partner. And trust me, I get it. I'm not judging you guys, even if you all are codependent. I'm just saying that in the long term it can cause more damage than good. Right, and I understand like you want to be around that person. It feels comforting, like nobody else matches that compatibility or even that friendship that comes with that partner. But I want you to think about it in a long term. Is it healthy perspective? And also, like, stop leaning on your partners to give them everything. Like I think that is very toxic Because it's like if I'm going to lean on my partner and say you have to fulfill everything that I need, then that's a lot of pressure for my partner.
Johnna:Yeah, and I mean, I guess, because I have been single for so long, it's hard for me when I have friends that are like, well, can my husband come with me? Like if I invite them to dinner or something, and if they're like, can my husband come, which I don't care, it's just kind of like I wanted to have some girl time, but you know, it's just like. And then in my mind it takes me back to my aunt's comment, and then it's almost like I want to be like why can't you? It's you live with them 24-7. Like, what's wrong with two hours apart, which I'm not?
Meenu:again, I'm not judging anyone, because I've never been in that situation to be able to compare it to. So, who knows, I could be in a relationship next year and you could be like Jonna, you're being very codependent, you know. So I doubt. I doubt it, though, girl, because it's like I have. I have had friendships like that too, like I have actually had to call someone out.
Meenu:This was not so long ago, this was last year, and you know we lived in we live in different countries. So long ago, this was last year, and you know we lived in, we live in different countries and she was just like saying, oh, I've been meaning to call you, I've been meaning to call you, and then at one day, one day, I was just like so why don't you? Yeah, you can pick up the phone and call me, you know. And then she was like oh, yeah, you know, we do everything together, and he wants to go to the gym and I go to the gym with him. And then then he wanted to do this.
Meenu:And then I said don't you have different rooms in the house? Like, can't you? You know, like if you're saying privacy is an issue, don't you have different rooms? Can't you go on a walk and be on the phone, like is that not okay, like, and then I just told her. I said, hey, I feel that you don't show up at all in our friendship and and that's okay. But don't tell me. Oh, I'll be there for you, I'm going to show up for you. You can call me. I'll call you. Don't tell me, you're going to be there and not show up.
Meenu:Right, right, yeah. So I think that it became eventually became unhealthy for her. She recognized it, you know. She recognized it and she realized she was losing a lot of valuable people in her life. Because it's what guys? Relationship alone ain't enough.
Johnna:You know, it's funny that another sign that I know that I'm a codependent person is that sometimes when, like, I have started dating someone and I really like them, like I do start and maybe this is the ER nurse in me as well but I'll be like, oh no, like what if something happens to them? Like what if they die, what? Like I know that sounds so morbid. But then I'm like, do I even want to be in this relationship? Do I want to feel that sadness? Do I want to be that unhappy again? And then I'm like maybe I shouldn't do this, maybe we shouldn't talk anymore.
Meenu:Yeah, and it's so interesting because actually all of that is just fear of control, is fear of losing control Okay, well, I wouldn't say it's codependency, I would. It's a legit fear of losing control where it's like, oh, if, if, if I end up like liking them too much and they're gone, which means taken away from me without my permission or knowledge, then what do I do? Which means I don't have control over the situation.
Johnna:Well, that makes more sense because we know I have control issues. Note to self continue working.
Meenu:That's so funny. And then obviously, the obvious one is the narcissistic relationship, and I don't know if you guys follow my podcast, but I actually recorded another episode a few weeks ago with a client of mine who came on air and she talked about a narcissistic relationship that she had just left and we talked about five different traits and how to overcome narcissism. So please go back to my previous episodes. If you're already listening to this, go to my show Transcended to Wellness, and go back a few episodes and listen to that, because I go very much in depth about narcissism and what it is in that episode. But traits of narcissism to keep it short on this episode is a grandiose sense of self. It is having almost a superiority over other people. It is, and the superiority is actually a mask of deep, deep, deep insecurity and then it is getting angry, Like I've always. Almost most of the time, the narcissist that I have come across are they have temper issues because, yes, because anger, for them, is easier, easier to express than hurt.
Meenu:Because if they have to say I am hurt, it unlocks a layer of vulnerability and narcissists cannot be vulnerable.
Johnna:But also like I was gonna say like do you think, and I don't, I haven't looked into this, and guys don't at me, because I'm in healthcare, I'm not a psych psychiatric nurse practitioner I often wonder like, is this something someone's born with or is this a very severe trauma that they went through where they blocked off all feelings? Because most narcissists come across very charming, like cause. That's why people, a lot of people, will be like well, how did you fall in love? Like you can see it, it's clear as day. But they've been together like 10 years. You know like it's. Like they're very, very charming, they love bomb. They come across and it's usually they know who to go after. Like people like me prior to me working with you.
Meenu:Very weak minded. I mean, I was in a very long term narcissistic relationship, long term.
Johnna:And I had all of everything that you just told me. I mean, we're usually, they know, like to go after the people who have been hurt very badly in the relationship. They have daddy issues, mommy issues.
Meenu:Also like empaths, a lot of like narcissists. And empaths Like if you're a very, very empathetic person, oh my God. It's like it's like a moth to a flame, because for them it's like, oh, they're going to be very empathetic, so it's like a constant supply for their self worth and how they feel and if they want to feel better about themselves, because give them everything.
Johnna:Right. Do you think that it's like a, like a personality disorder, like a, or do you think that there was some type of severe trauma that caused them to then shut off everything?
Johnna:unfortunately, it's both because I feel like it's either or or, sometimes both because I was like if, if it's not a born with type situation, then you would think it could be fixed. But they're the type of people that refuse to think anything is wrong with them anyway. So, like how did someone that my dad was like that my dad was like there's nothing wrong with me and he yelled a lot. You know he, he was physically abusive, yeah, and so very into himself, like if he, if his hair did not lay right because he had long hair back in the day, he would get back in the shower, refix it, that type of personality. And so it's just like they're never going to get held because they refuse to think anything is wrong with themselves. Or do they deep down know something is wrong with their two? Like that's where I get confused with a narcissist.
Meenu:Okay, so let me. Let me put it this way they are deeply, deeply insecure, but they are not in touch with their insecurity. They do know that they're insecure, but the quick way for them to mask it is a grandiose sense of self.
Johnna:Okay, so like they disassociate the two feelings within themselves, exactly right.
Meenu:But they do know something's wrong with them. Oh, they know something is wrong with them, but they disassociate this associates so well, because it's easier for them, like I said, it's easier for them to be like you're the problem, not me, I'm good at everything, I didn't do anything wrong and it's just never the case, right? Hey, so it's like in in my situation, like he wasn't born with it. He was made that way due to his family. Like the second he was born, they started worshiping the ground, he walked on, okay, and they started putting him on a pedestal everyone. So guess what happens when you put a child on a pedestal? You become an adult that thinks you are better than everyone.
Johnna:Yeah.
Meenu:Which is AKA the grandiose sense of self.
Johnna:Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, that's a whole. We could do a whole podcast on that because it's so, it's an interesting personality trait, it's very interesting it is very interesting and they can be very charming.
Meenu:They can love bomb. You know all the things that you said they have. And then you know all the things that you said they have. And then you know it's very hard to, like I said in the previous episode, I did talk about unmasking a narcissist. It's very hard to unmask a narcissist, unfortunately, unless you are in a relationship with them. You see them day in and out and you disagree with them. That's a great way to unmask a narcissist.
Johnna:When we get done recording. I'm going to ask you about someone I dated and you tell me because, this is. This is bringing back some memories for me, Okay.
Meenu:Absolutely. So, yes, if you ever feel like this person that you are with or dating, is it? They don't have empathy. They have a very grandiose sense of self. They are quick to get angry. They dismiss your feelings um narcissism, yep for sure. So yes, jonna's like showing me. Um, I was sign languaging to her sign language. We can't talk about it here, but we'll talk about it later.
Johnna:Oh, my God, it's literally just going. I know right.
Meenu:Yeah, it's like we ignore the signs. We, we don't because we are charmed the charm. And I, you know, I don't blame you, I've been there. I've been there. I've always been very self-aware. I've never not been self-aware in my life, even when I was a kid and I couldn't see it.
Johnna:Yeah.
Meenu:Couldn't. The charm is real, the love bombing is real, yeah, you know they have a way of like giving us exactly what we want or what we want to believe. They say the things that we want to believe, and so we believe it.
Johnna:We eat it up because we missed it in our childhood. Damn you mom, I'm just kidding.
Meenu:Sorry, mom, something's not clicking. There's a reason. It's an invitation for you to look deeper and do the work, because if you continually date thinking, oh, the next person is going to be better. It doesn't work like that. And Jonah and I also recorded another episode if you go back, it's called Soulmate or Trauma Mate, where we go very in depth about how you attract partners based on your unhealed trauma. So definitely give that a listen. The other toxic relationship which is also romanticized, unfortunately, in movies and TV shows, it's the hot and cold relationships which is on off, on off.
Johnna:It's all I've ever been in?
Meenu:Yeah, I've been in one too. It's good. God would never recommend it, because it the thing is. When it it's on, it's really good. You're on cloud nine. Yeah, it's amazing.
Johnna:They tell you all the things you need to hear, they do everything that you want to experience, and then, when it's off, they drop you like nothing happened but you know what's very sad about that one for me anyways, like when because I've I've been in quite a few hot and cold relationships you have so much chemistry with those people and you feel like you're never going to have that with someone else Because I think there's two people that I was in a hot and cold relationship with and it's like you feel like you're never going to have that again with somebody else, and I think that's what makes you feel like when they come back, you're like, oh my gosh, yes, because that chemistry is unreal and I'll be's what makes you feel like when they come back, you're like, oh my gosh, yes, because I just that chemistry is unreal and I'll be honest, like the sex is unbelievable. Like usually with those type of people, it's usually unbelievable.
Meenu:Yeah, it is, and the reason is it's reflecting your childhood. It is reflecting that you had to earn for love. Love is not consistent. You see what I'm trying to see? The love is not consistent. If you grow up with inconsistent love, you think that's love. Yeah, I think that's love. You think that's okay. Your subconscious then seeks that and thinks that's thrilling and interesting and makes everything better.
Johnna:Yeah, I remember when we were going through sessions and I talked to you about it because I was like when I'm in, when I and I know what a healthy, healthy relationship would be with someone because I know they like me and I don't like them and I know that would be a healthy relationship and I tend to not like people when I know it would be healthy.
Meenu:Yeah, because you're not used to it and it's unfamiliar territory. Yeah, like, quote, unquote, it's boring, right, it's boring and it's boring, right, it's boring and it's unfamiliar. So it's really interesting because, like when I started healing a lot of my deeper wounds and kind of changed my point of attraction with, with men, you know it's you kind of manifest somebody that's very healthy, and then when you've healed or done so much work, then you realize, oh my God, everybody else was so unhealthy, like it's, it's a very jarring, you know, it's on the face, it's a jarring truth which is hard to hard to like swallow almost, because you, you don't even realize that you have played a toxic role, right, right, enabling that behavior with the hot and cold with the other person yep and I I told you this the other day.
Johnna:This happens a lot with just men in general in my life, whether it be friends, platonic, romantic or family members. Um, and I had given you the example of you know, like we just talked about, my dad was a narcissist. You know, I'm self-diagnosing him. I believe he, if he wasn't a narcissist, he had narcissistic tendencies, and so my dad died at a young age and the last conversation I had with him was I hate you. That was the last thing I had said to him, and then he passed away and then I felt this immense guilt and so throughout life I would over-apologize.
Johnna:I would always try to make things right between any friend, any romantic situation I was in, whether I was in the wrong or not, I would often apologize. And you know and I won't get into too much detail but like a couple of people were saying some rude things to me that I had to finally stand up for myself, and it was like this aha moment I told you. I literally just woke up and I was like, why do I allow people to weaponize, taking their love from me, whether it be family love, friendly love, whatever, or approval. Like you, you take that away from me, you take your communication away from me, and that's how you punish me.
Johnna:And so I do what you say so that you don't take that away from me because of that trauma that I went through, where you know that control I lost, where my dad took that away and I could never make that relationship right again.
Meenu:Yes, and so I woke up and I was like that relationship right again, yes.
Johnna:And so I woke up and I was like, why am I doing what? Like, why am I doing something? I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm communicating my feelings you know, and just because you don't like my opinion, you then Take that away from me.
Meenu:Yes, and and you know there's a lot of courage and John and I've talked about it where, if you can stand up and be like, it's okay for me to be disliked. There's it takes a lot to get there it's okay If they don't like me. It's okay If they don't resonate with me. It's also okay If they don't validate me. They can hate my guts and I'm that's fine. If you become that person, I can easily say you're the strongest person in the room, because most of us innately want validation, need validation, need approval, because we come from a tribal mindset. We want to be included, we want to be approved. Because back then remember, evolution is real Back then, when we were kicked out of the tribe, we were dead, yeah. So we don't want to be kicked out, we want to belong. We want to belong, but what's happened is there's no more tribes. It's just you know there's overly populated right now and you know it's. And so, realizing that the getting kicked out is a survival mechanism, there's no such thing as getting kicked out.
Johnna:Right. No, you're right, and I mean it's very hard, Like you have to work with someone like you or you have to go to therapy to really break through these triggers that you have, because you've always told me, like no one else is responsible for the triggers that I have. You know that's my responsibility to fix that, that's my responsibility to figure that out and develop healthy relationships, friendships, you know, with family members, friends, romantic partners, all the above.
Meenu:No, absolutely Absolutely. And then the other relationship dynamic that I wanted to talk about is like this competitive relationship dynamic, which is also very toxic. You know, I feel like some couples enjoy a healthy competition, which is fine, you do you, if that works for you. You know, if that is healthy for you, guys, you do that. But I have seen it go in a very unhealthy direction where, like, the wife is like fighting for a promotion and the husband got the promotion before and and she's like, oh damn it, you know, I'm not good enough. And then that causes like the power dynamic to shift in their relationship and it's just wild, yeah, like how they can let it ruin such a good thing. And you know, that's why I believe and again, guys, oh my god, not talking about politics I believe that men and women are not equal. They bring different things to the table. Yeah, they, they're not equal. And when I say they're not equal, I'm not talking about rights, it's the role in the relationship.
Johnna:Right, like getting into, like masculine energy, feminine energy, that's what you're talking more about energy, not human rights.
Meenu:No, not at all, just being very clear. So it's like you know, as as a, as a woman, you can bring something that your partner can be totally incapable of bringing. As a man, he can bring something that you're just not even interested in bringing. That Right.
Johnna:You know.
Meenu:So it's like, instead of competition, that's what I would say it's like what is your strong suit, like what can you bring and what can you, you know, the other person bring? And rather focusing on that than saying, oh, I need to go on the same timeline that they're going, otherwise it's not good enough, or they're not good enough or I'm not good enough, and that, can you know, lead to breakups, divorces, whatnot? Like so many things, right, right. And then, obviously, the last one that I want to talk about is emotional unavailability, which is very painful. I have been through that, you know, I have. It's not okay, like you know. And then they and the way they try to mask it, like if somebody is like emotionally unavailable and they're refusing to work on the unavailability, they will try to give you other things.
Meenu:Yeah, been there it might feel sufficient for a week or a month if you're lucky.
Johnna:But then whenever you catch on and you're starting to recognize that and you try to have a conversation about it. They then gaslight you and say that they're not doing anything wrong. What you're thinking is all a scenario in your head. And you're making it like how you say you're making up stories in your head. None of that is the truth and you're crazy.
Meenu:Oh yeah, I mean that's also talking about the second thing, which is narcissism that you are with a narcissist. If you're always confused, you're definitely with a narcissist, because they're very good at causing that confusion. Gotcha, gotcha, right. So this can go on. But the way we want to wrap it up is like how can you spot the toxicity right, because there's so many types of toxic people men and women when you're dating, but how do you spot it in, like early stages? How do you spot it even in the in-between stages? Or how do you spot it even in a marriage, if you're going for counseling and you know you want to work on it, right? I think the first thing for me is if you can speak your truth to your partner, if you can be yourself and say what's bothering you, that is a very big red flag that's a very big red flag.
Johnna:You know, that's funny because the last guy that I dated, I didn't. We didn't date long, so I didn't get to like no, no him, but like um, afterwards, when we were just friends, there was a situation where he thought I had said something that I didn't. And he came to me and he asked me not immediately go on the defense Like you know, like no, I didn't know. Like, why would you think that Like? And then of course, I was like do you not believe me? Like, just like.
Johnna:But from the past, right, like I like other people have gaslit me and not believe me. And he literally just sat me down and he was like look, it's cool, you said you didn't say it, I believe you, that's PTSD for you, that's PTSD literally. Well, I had to. I had to be like look, dude, like seriously, it's because I've had other situations in the past where my word just wasn't taken like and he was like you said you didn't say it, I believe you, I don't care about it, it's not a big deal to me, I just was curious and I was just like I'm not used to this type of communication because I was like in my mind, not to him, but in my mind I was just like, does he believe me? Like, is he being genuine, like, like it was just that, like this is weird that we are having a conversation and I could say how I felt, and it was just like he, he talked, I talked and it was done, and I was just like oh, this is probably what it's supposed to be like.
Meenu:that's really healthy. Exactly that's what it's supposed to be like like for me, because, you, I have been with one or two narcissists. I can say I had a lot of PTSD, like I couldn't, you know, speak my truth to the current partner that I'm with. For a while I was like should I say it? Should I not say it? Should I just write a note? Like, should I just send a text? Should I just send a text? Crazy, because I was gaslit for so long. I was like okay, well, will it be received?
Meenu:So it took some time to build my self worth, to rebuild my truth, to rebuild my voice, and that's why, you know, john, I talk about this so much. It's the, it's the importance of doing the damn work, like you know, because if you can't do the work and you don't do the work and you expect your partner to fix things for you and magically show up for you without healing your triggers, then that's not fair either. Right, right, and it's like. So the first sign of toxicity, like I said, is if you think you have to walk on eggshells and you can't speak your truth, you can't be yourself. There's something fundamentally wrong with that. So definitely either have a conversation about it, go to therapy, go to counseling, go to coaching, whatever you believe in, right. And then the second thing is feeling very drained when that person is around. You really have to check this.
Meenu:I actually again experienced this. I I started noticing this. This was so crazy, like this was like when I started going out without him with my girlfriends, I was happier. Yeah, I was like, oh god God, when I had to come home, I wouldn't come home, I would sit in my car for 15 minutes. I didn't like coming home. I didn't like it and I was like, oh, oops, okay. So I was feeling very drained.
Johnna:Okay. So how could you you tell someone like because I'm sure if someone's been married 15, 20 years, there's moments where they will feel drained, they might want to sit in the car a little bit longer to have time to their self how could you tell someone to spot the difference in feeling a little drained because it's monotony versus feeling drained because they're literally draining your energy and you need to leave because it's toxic?
Meenu:Yeah, look for signs of boredom. If you feel bored, it's just monotony and that just means you need to do things differently. Right, you might need to spice things up wherever needed, if you know what I mean. Or like, take a trip or just change something up. And I've seen couples do it in so many ways Find what interests both of you and change something up. And I've seen couples do it in so many ways Find what interests both of you and change things up. Because that can happen, that's the most natural thing that can ever happen, right.
Meenu:However, when I say feeling drained, I also mean like feeling a little negative. That was the telltale sign that there's something going on. There's either an elephant in the room that's not being talked about, or there's values being disrespected continually, or there's gaslighting that's happening continually. Then it's like, oh, something is going on and something needs to be addressed. So that's the difference, right. And then this is this is also really important. This is a classic sign of like toxicity. It's like repeated cycles of highs and lows. Repeated cycles of highs and lows. I had this in my previous relationship where, when the highs were happening, everything was amazing, everything was great, but it would only last for two months.
Meenu:Mine was a month, every four weeks, every four weeks? Yeah, and every relationship has a pattern. So find out if you're stuck in that pattern, and then after two months, it would go back to square one. And so what that told me is this person is unwilling to change. Yeah, this person is changing temporarily, so that they can keep me on a tight leash, which is a form of control, yep, but they're not looking and reflecting on their behavior and they're not making the change internally because they what did I say? They don't believe that anything's wrong with them, which is a sign of narcissism.
Johnna:Right and I feel like like the emotional control and if they're in, just like emotional abuse is a lot harder to spot or to try to get rid of than physical, because when someone physically hits you, there's a bruise there, it stays, you hurt, you have pain. But, when someone's emotionally, slowly, emotionally abusing you. Sometimes it's hard to catch.
Meenu:It is very hard to catch. It's not sometimes, because remember, there's been love bombing before and they have done really great things and big things for you. There's usually grand gestures and narcissism, right. So if they've given you that, your mind will, will go to. But they have done so many nice things, but there's such a good person like they did this and they did that, like there's no way they can neglect me, there's no way they can emotionally abuse me. Maybe it's a one time occurrence, maybe maybe they're having a bad day, like that's the excuse that I made for my previous partner, like I was. Maybe it's a bad season, maybe it's stress at work.
Johnna:When insults don't have to be direct either, like and that's what people, I think, don't pick up on either Like, for example, I have a friend that's husband would say things like well, you're only talking like that because of your friends.
Johnna:And she finally caught on like after a while, and she was like actually, no, I can formulate my own thoughts and opinions. So it was actually a diss to her to say you don't have thoughts and opinions, you're only acting that way because of your friends, yeah. And so she finally was like no, I have my own thoughts and my opinions and they don't control who I am. This is coming from my mind and my thoughts, right, but it was slowly like. That was a slow like, and you had to like I wouldn't have caught on to that like if it were me and I would have been like why are you talking about my friends?
Meenu:like that right, right, right, oh my god. This actually happened to me. This actually happened to me. One of my ex was like um, he was like I think you're behaving like this and I think you're thinking like this because you're hanging out with them. I was like I think, think you're behaving like this.
Meenu:And I think you're thinking like this because you're hanging out with them. I was like I think I'm a grown woman and I think I know what I'm thinking and I think I know what I like and don't like. Right, you know? So that definitely can happen and you know like. So I said like to avoid it. How can you avoid it? You can't fix the other person because they probably don't want to be fixed.
Meenu:The way to avoid it really is to look at yourself and be like how can I build my self-worth? I build character. How can I build identity? How do I know who I want and how can I build on my morals, my values not what my friend is doing, not what anybody else is doing my specific values on how a healthy relationship has to be. And so I would say that that will be my conclusion always is to work on yourself, always, always, work on it, never stop. It never ends, because at every stage, a different level of healing and awareness is demanded of you. If you're a mother, you need to heal different wounds. If you're a girlfriend, there's different. If you're the wife, you're different.
Johnna:Every stage there's different wounds showing up, and I can attest to that because, like, my self-esteem used to be so piss poor, like so piss poor, and I'm not saying it's like top level, but like I'm somewhere in the middle now and like, when people say certain things to me, I can kind of like, get that like, what Like, and it doesn't hurt as bad because I I'm learning to love who I am, I am learning to know who I am when. Before I was very unsure. I was very like I'm this way for this person. I'm this way for this person. I want everyone like. I want everybody to like me. Let me be this way. And so someone could say something to me and I would kind of fall over right, like what oh, that stings.
Johnna:Am I like that? Maybe I am like that. They said I was like that.
Meenu:It must be true you know, that's where I think it, the self-identity comes right. It's like who am I? Who am I? Who am I? You know, it's like I. I was doing this exercise for a year after my divorce because I really like lost a sense of self and I would wake up and be like who am I? Who am I? Like every day in meditation. That was the inquiry for me and I would just let it, let it come to me and and then I. It's. It's almost like think about it this way if this tree is not strong, any winds can take it down. Yeah, can't blame the wind. The wind is going to be there. Yeah, the rain is going to be there. The tornadoes are going to be there, the hurricanes are going to be there and that's why trees grow their roots down exactly so.
Meenu:Build on your roots, build on who you are, like you can. It's very easy to say they're toxic, this person is toxic and they did this to me. Absolutely. I empathize with you. Pain is hard Like betrayal should never happen. You should never be with a toxic person. I agree with that. But at the same time you, when you work on yourself, you can make better choices.
Johnna:And the last thing I'll say like you can also kind of tell when it's healthy, because we're all going to have men and women. Both we've all been through stuff. We've all been through traumatic events where, if you're working on yourself, you're still healing, and so you have those PTSD moments like I had when I was afraid to be like what? No, I didn't say that, like I'm a truthful person, like trying to explain myself over and over. No, I didn't say that, like I'm a truthful person, like trying to explain myself over and over. I think that I just lost the. It was going somewhere and I lost it. Thank you, thyroid. But but like, oh, that's how I think when you're in a healthy thing, like you will see that they are patient with those traumas.
Johnna:Like I'm not saying they'll forever be patient because you have to, you have to. You know you can't do it all the time and just say what's my triggers, because that's also toxic of you but. If you truly are in therapy and you truly are working on it, I think that other person will be more tolerant and they will be more understanding and go okay, cool, not a big deal. I get it like you have ptsd from.
Meenu:Yeah, oh no, absolutely Like, absolutely. Like the relationship that I'm in right now, like this person had to be unbelievably patient with me Unbelievable patience, like otherwise it wouldn't have worked like very, very patient, and it's it's because you know, you're transparent, you're talking about your triggers, you're talking about your wounds and you're talking about your pain points and you're telling them what's going on. So doing the work is it should never be a point of shame, like I know a lot of people think that, oh, going to therapy, going to work with a coach, oh, it's like beneath me, I should know this, I should have this shit figured out. I'll just read books, books. I'll just watch YouTube videos. I am so sorry, it is not the same as working with a professional. It's not, it's really not.
Johnna:Well, I mean, I did self-help books for a long time, then I started with talk therapy and then I moved to you with coaching and for me personally, coaching just works for me better.
Meenu:Yeah, and for each person it's very different, like I've had so many clients oh my God, that are like. I read these books, I did these things and you know I'm still feeling all these things, I still have these wounds, I'm still very triggered Because you don't have that person to call you out to help you interrupt your pattern, to help heal your traumas, to help you heal your wounds. Remember, when you do the work on your own, you can get really deep right. There is a point that your subconscious allows you to go and if it's too painful, your own mind will prevent you from going there. So that's why there are professionals.
Meenu:So if you're listening to this and you feel like you're in a toxic situation, you're in a toxic relationship or you don't know, even if you're confused, that is a really good place to start working with someone else, and I'm gonna put my info on the show notes. So, if you are ever feeling the pull or the calling book, a free call with me and let's actually see if we are a good fit for working together, because I would not want you to be in a toxic situation, right? Nobody it should. Nobody should be in a toxic situation. But with this day and age where there's so much help available.
Johnna:Right, and of course I always link you in my show notes as well. So if you're listening on my platform, just definitely go to the show notes and then you can easily click and find me and you. That easy.
Meenu:Oh, thank you. And yeah, guys, saying all that, I would love to wrap this episode up. I hope you got something out of this. I hope you learned something out of this. I hope you didn't relate, but if you did again, there's no shame in that. And you're not alone. And you're not, oh, definitely not. We just talked about our stuff. You're definitely never not alone. And you're not, oh, definitely not. We just talked about our stuff, like you're definitely never, never alone. So, on that note, have a beautiful week, guys, and we will catch you guys on the next episode All right, guys, until next time, bye, Bye, thank you.
