Babbles Nonsense
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Babbles Nonsense
Break Free from People-Pleasing and Become Your Most Authentic Self w/ Meenu
#175: The constant urge to say "yes" when you want to scream "no" might be more harmful than you realize. In this raw, transformative conversation about people-pleasing, we uncover how this seemingly innocent trait actually represents a profound disconnection from your authentic self.
When 69% of adults regularly put others' needs before their own even when it hurts them, we're not talking about kindness—we're talking about a pattern of self-abandonment that deserves our attention. Meenu shares her personal journey from chronic people-pleaser to boundary-setting advocate, revealing the painful reality that "people-pleasing cost me my whole life" and how she finally broke free at age 30.
We explore why women are twice as likely as men to struggle with saying no, how cultural expectations shape our tendency to people-please, and the surprising truth that your people-pleasing might actually be a form of manipulation. Rather than making connections stronger, this pattern often leads to resentment and disconnection from your true self.
The most powerful revelation? The temporary discomfort of setting boundaries is nothing compared to the freedom waiting on the other side. Through practical techniques like the "20-second pause" before responding and gradual boundary-setting approaches, you'll discover how to honor your needs without sacrificing relationships. Whether your people-pleasing stems from childhood experiences, fear of abandonment, or simply habit, this episode provides compassionate guidance for reclaiming your authentic voice.
Listen now to start the journey from self-abandonment to self-respect. Your future self—the one who can say "no" without guilt and "yes" with genuine enthusiasm—is waiting.
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What is up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the Babbles Nonsense Podcast, where we have me and you back today, where we unpack the real, the raw and the often overlooked parts of life. In today's episode, we're diving deep into the topic that hits home for so many of us and that is people-pleasing that constant urge to say yes, to avoid conflict and prioritize everyone else's needs over our own, whether it's at work, in relationships or even with family. The pattern can feel impossible to break, but here's the truth. Being, quote unquote, nice shouldn't mean sacrificing your peace. Like I said earlier, mean you is back today and we all know that she specializes in energy healing and life coaching. She has been helping women and men break free from those approval seeking and stepping into their confident, boundary living lives. We're going to talk about why people pleasing starts, how it affects your mental and emotional health and, most importantly, how to stop. If you've ever felt guilty for saying no or struggle with setting limits without feeling like the bad guy, this episode is definitely for you.
Speaker 2:So All right guys. Welcome back to another episode with Meenu and Jonna and, obviously, Babbel's Nonsense. So super excited to do this because I think it's been a while. It has been a long while. It's been a long while Our schedules are not lining up. She's busy with things, I'm busy with things. It's like when I'm free she's not. You all know how it works. So we are here to talk about something pretty important today. I have touched on this in other podcast episodes, but I haven't gone in depth like this, so I'm really excited to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, we are going to talk about people pleasing and boundary setting. Today Someone reached out and just asked if me and me and you could do this. They said they wanted to know our thoughts. So we were like, oh yeah, that's actually a really good topic. We have touched on it, like in other, when it comes to relationships and how people pleasing comes out in relationships and stuff like that. But we just wanted to do a whole segment on people pleasing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Very excited. So what is people pleasing? I mean like, instead of going like in a definitive Google way, like people pleasing is basically multiple definitions and one of them is like self abandonment to make sure you're included in a group or included in somebody else's reality Right, and we do it for many reasons. We do it to influence people, we do it for survival. Honestly, it's sad because a lot of people do do it for survival, but they don't understand how it comes across and they don't understand how much damage it does to their own soul and spirit than they are people pleasing.
Speaker 1:And would you say it's more like an unconscious, like a subconscious thing, like people aren't consciously aware of their people pleasing habits all the time.
Speaker 2:I would say, I would say yes and no, like I would say most of the time that they're not aware of it because, again, it's like an auto program and usually that typically starts in childhood or teenage. But sometimes people know, like some of my clients, like when they come and tell me they're very conscious, they're like I know I'm people pleasing and I want to stop. People pleasing, whether it's their partner, whether it's their parents, they actively like, want to stop, and some, whether it's their partner, whether it's their parents, they actively like, want to stop. And some people do it very like, subliminally, like they don't know that they're doing it constantly. So it's kind of I mean, it's kind of sad if you think about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I would say too I mean because I don't know if you've ever been a people pleaser but 100% former people pleaser, for I think until like four years ago, I, I, I in another life, I fully was a people pleaser.
Speaker 1:Cause I was going to look up real quick statistics on people pleasing. I should have probably done that before we started recording, but then it just hit me when you started talking about like how many people probably do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to be a people pleaser all my life and, uh, really interesting. Dad, if you're listening to this, I'm sorry. I know you're different now, but you know, when he raised me, like when I was little, like he would always say the biggest asset is to be liked by everyone and I was like, huh, okay, so I just need to be liked by everyone. So that started like an unconscious pattern all the way in my teenagers, choosing terrible partners, being in shitty relationships. You know negative situations all the way until my like I only stopped when I was 30, which is really sad.
Speaker 1:Well, I was about to say that makes a lot of sense because I don't know if anyone ever told me when I was a child to like, you know, to be liked by everyone. But you see it, you see it, you see it a lot Like. It's almost like a loop that you don't even realize you're seeing it when it comes to like celebrities, magazines, movies, like Disney channel. You know, just like how people are always trying to make everything better and right, and so I guess it is, like you said, a yes and a no. Some of it is subconscious and then some of it is it's conscious, you're consciously aware of it, but it's more of the you have to tap in, you have to almost be like okay, I am aware that this is people pleasing, right right?
Speaker 2:oh, absolutely. And you know, I always like to like go back to the why and I like to go back to the root. So it's like, even if we talk about evolution, if you think about it like we're all a part of a tribe, right? So like if we stood out and said I disagree with you to a member of the tribe, then you are kicked out of the tribe, which means you actually die. Yes, even though we've evolved and we're not in a tribe and we don't live in the jungle and all those things, the brain is still wired to be included. The brain is wired for companionship, for connection. So, like when you're people pleasing, that's what you're trying to achieve subconsciously, but the problem is you're abandoning yourself completely.
Speaker 1:And that's when you would say you're kind of giving your power away and in a sense, you're giving your power away the entire time.
Speaker 2:And the worst part is like not only are you giving your power away when the other person doesn't recognize that you people pleased or you sacrificed or compromised on your values, you also get resentful. Yes, yes, I would say 100%. I know you're laughing because you've been through that. I've been through that.
Speaker 1:I'm laughing because, like things, certain scenarios come to my mind. When you say stuff, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But I pulled up some statistics so it says the prevalence of people pleasing traits 69% of adults say they often put other people's needs before their own, even when it negatively impacts them. And that's from a stat in 2022. That's a lot 69% is a lot.
Speaker 1:I don't know that I've ever met. Well, I've probably met a few people. They really don't, they truly don't care what other people think. And like it's almost very like admirable, and like you kind of strive for that, and it's almost like how do you do that? Like how do you just not care? Is it truly that you don't care?
Speaker 2:Or is it a front that you're putting on? I think it's actually. I think they've all been people pleasers, like right now I'm at a point that I don't care, but I have been a people pleaser for most of my life and I care too much. And now what happened is the pendulum just switched to the other side. I think I'm done.
Speaker 2:And then the worst part is like, after I was done, I started feeling so much better, like the momentary discomfort would like still kick in, like like it was so bad, you guys, like it was like if I disagreed I would have knots in my stomach. It was like that bad. And then so I had to sit with the ache and I had to sit with the knot, and I had to regulate myself over and over again, and then I had to, you know, keep telling myself well, guess what'm not dead just because I stood up to myself, guess what, I'm not isolated just because I stood up to myself. Like I had to like rewire my brain to feel safety and standing up for the truth. So it's not like overnight. Oh, I decided and I'm gonna stop. No, no, no, you're. You're gonna have like somatic, like feelings. You know you're going to feel it in your body. You're going to feel uncomfortable, but then you get comfortable with the uncomfortable and then you you realize how amazing the freedom feels.
Speaker 1:And then you choose the freedom know me that, just think they know me. They would be like oh, you're not a people pleaser. Like you, you say and do whatever you want. But really they don't know the mental turmoil because a lot of people like who accept I feel like accept or don't mind confrontation. People think that those people are not people pleasers, because a lot of people pleasers do not like confrontation. So they will be like oh, yeah, yeah, whatever you say, you know when really they're wanting to say no or whatnot. And I don't mind standing up for myself in my professional life, which me and you have talked about multiple times on this podcast but in my personal life it's really hard for me to tell someone no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's also fear of abandonment. Yes, exactly where it comes from. It's like if you guys are listening to this and you're like, oh yeah, I can't say no, like you have fear of abandonment in some way or another. It's in your body and the more you start working on the fear of abandonment and releasing that fear of abandonment, you're going to be like Okay, I don't think I'm going to abandon myself and that's good enough, because what you're doing when you're people pleasing is you're abandoning yourself so that you don't have to be abandoned by someone else.
Speaker 1:Would you say that the fear of abandonment is truly FOMO, when people say, oh, I don't want to have FOMO, fear of missing out.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes and no, because sometimes for certain people it's really like it's a big deal right. It's like fear of abandonment. Yeah, for some people it's FOMO, but really like it's a big deal right, it's like fear of abandonment. Yeah, for some people it's FOMO, but for other people it actually goes really deep, like they have been neglected by a parent because they didn't people please. They, you know they may have been left in a relationship because they didn't please, so it's like very deep for them. It's not just like FOMO for them, like for me. I'll tell you like, until I was 30, like it was FOMO for me, like I have, you know, some of my girlfriends. They used to like go out, you know, to the clubs, and they love to go dancing, which is amazing, like you know, and I used to like want to go because I didn't want to say no, because if I said no, it would A disappoint them and B I had FOMO.
Speaker 1:Right, Because the next day when they were, when maybe y'all went to brunch together and they were talking about how much fun they had last night, you're like well, damn, I should have went.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But then later I realized that the FOMO is like not worth it, because my body just felt awful. With alcohol in my system. I just didn't feel good the next day. I just felt like shit. And I'm like first of all I didn't even want to go and I went, and then this is the punishment for like not listening to my own intuition and my own needs. So eventually I just like stopped going right and and also like told them I'm not going to take it personally if you guys stop inviting me, because you know this is just not my scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a combination of FOMO, but it also is for some people. It's like really deep, you know okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Now I know we're talking about people pleasing, but there's also this other saying that people say, like the nice guy syndrome, is people pleasing the same as nice guy syndrome, or how would you differentiate the two?
Speaker 2:it's very similar like nice guy syndromes. It's so funny you say nice guy syndrome, like I actually just was talking to a client last week and I told him he has nice guy syndrome and I told him to read this book called no more mr nice guy, by the way, if you're that's on my notes we're laughing, guys in the video, like we're like dying laughing anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that book, guys, is like amazing, like it's amazing. Like some of my male friends have read it and they vouch so much for it. It is like one secret sauce for like breaking people pleasing. It's really good and it I know it says no more, mr Nice Guy. But like people read it with their girlfriends, people read it with their wives, so like, yeah, you can like give it a shot, even if you're a woman. You can like give it a shot, even if you're a woman. Like you can, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1:I don't know that I've ever met a man Really that has quote unquote nice guys. Well, maybe one of my best friends from college did because he was the nicest guy and he did have a hard time saying no to people because he was just so nice. But, like, as far as like men, I've dated no.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be really honest, I think it's a little bit more influenced with culture because, like I see people here like you know not a lot of them it's like when you compare it to like I mean, I'm Indian. So it's like when you compare it with, like Indian men you know most of the Indian men are like you know, many of them, I will say, are like people pleasers. Oh, really, Women and men, yeah, yeah, Interesting Really deep. Because it's like you're very attached to your parents so you're always thought to like obey your parents, listen to your parents, make sure you don't disrespect them. That kind of like goes too much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you don't want to upset them like by anything that you do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like automatically, it's like, oh yeah, I have to like, please them, and then that kind of like leaks to other relationships, that leaks outside. So it's probably very common in like Mexican culture, because I've lived in Mexico so I know that it's common in Indian culture. It's less common with American men because we disrespect our parents but it's very common with American women that I have noticed, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now that you like when you say that, like the statistics that I looked, noticed you know. Yeah, Now that you like when you say that, like the statistics that I looked up, it does. Did say that there's a gender difference when it comes to people pleasing. It says that women are twice as likely as men to say they struggle with saying no at work or in relationships, and the statistics from 2020 from psychology today said 75% of women said they feel guilty when prioritizing their needs over others 75%.
Speaker 2:That's a lot. And you know, I think it's sad because again it goes back to programming and culture. As women, we are programmed from a really young age to be a nurturer, to be a caretaker, to hold space for everyone, to deal with shit Like you know, like be sensitive, put yourself on the back burner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, be sensitive Like you put yourself on the back burner, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the problem with like continuously and always being of service is that you're not of service to yourself. Right, you're of service to the world, but you're not of service to yourself. Nobody teaches you that, which is what they should be teaching how to be of service to yourself, how to fill your cup first before, like giving from overflow.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how your culture does, but like I've noticed this with a lot of my friends that have children, like their whole identity becomes a mother and it's more, it's, and it's a lot of I feel like it's a lot of societal pressure, like that's how we're taught, like that's when you grow up, like once you're a mother, you know your kids come first.
Speaker 1:You know when, really, when you talk to psychologists and therapists and life coaches, they say that you're actually supposed to put your marriage first, yes, children second, because that's why a lot of marriages end in divorce, because and I'm not saying all, I'm just saying and I'm not saying this is just for my friends, this is just what I've been taught or read about. You know, when I, when I look things up, that a lot of women will put their children first and they act like they no longer have a husband. Women will put their children first and they act like they no longer have a husband, and that husband then becomes like well then, and then that's when the grow growing apart kind of takes place and happens.
Speaker 2:Yes, and also this is so interesting you brought up because it's like then you also put your children first. It's enormous pressure on the children. Let's not even like ignore that, right, it's enormous pressure. And then you know, guess what? In a few years, your kids are gonna like graduate and leave. And then you're gonna be like, damn, I did all these things and you know my whole Emma exactly. Then they have an identity crisis, like one of my friends told me this, which is like I think it's like bad shit If you're listening to this, I'm sorry, but using it for a good example here which is she was like I'm just going to like wherever my kids go for college you know if they go to university they're moving across country or like states I'm going to go with them oh, and I'm just gonna uproot her whole life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like wait a minute. You mean like you're gonna stay with them. And then she was like no, no, I'll find my own place, like they can have their own freedom, but I would like like to do that. And then she laughed about it. So I think it's a joke. I was like that's people pleasing to another level. That's like crazy, and I've seen parents do that. They people please their kids.
Speaker 1:Well, I was about to just say like it's funny, that funny that you say you know it's a whole nother level, because it's kind of a full circle if you think about it.
Speaker 1:So if a mother which, again, we're brought up and taught by not only our parents but our society as women to be nurturers, to be a mom, to give all of yourself to everyone but yourself, like, like and we use kids as an example because it's the easiest to see like, if you're a mom, like, okay, put all your money into your children, don't go out with your girls, don't go get your nails done, don't get a massage done, don't get your hair done because you need to take care of your children, when in reality we know, like, from a psychological perspective, you have to take care of yourself and fill your cup before you can fill anyone, children included. And just like they say, like on an airplane, you have to put your oxygen mask on first before you can fill anyone, children included. And just like they say, like on an airplane, you have to put your oxygen mask on first before you can put anyone else's on, because if you put it on your child and this child and that person and that person, then you're dead.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that is so true, and I think we need to stop like glorifying that behavior where it's like, oh my God, she's just doing so much for her husband, she's just doing so much for her kid, like is that actually of service later? Like, you know, what is the what? What message are you really like sending that person?
Speaker 1:Like you said, like if this all starts in our childhood from what we're seeing and it's deep rooted, then then maybe that's where it is. You know that's where it's beginning. It's like did the chicken come before the egg or the egg before the chicken? No one really knows, right, because it's a full circle. So did people pleasing come from? Seeing your mom and your dad, like your parents give all to you and not to themselves. So then you feel like you have to please them because they sacrifice so much for you. So then it's like then you grow up, people pleasing, and then you're doing it as a, as an adult, then you're doing it with your children, but but it's like what came first? The people pleasing?
Speaker 2:Exactly, and sometimes it's also like kids. You know, when children grow up, they don't listen to what you say. They mirror your behavior. So it's like they watch what you do. They see how you operate in life and the way you make decisions. So if you're a parent and you know you're people pleasing, let's say, not your children, but other people, people like you're doing it with your spouse, you're doing it with your sister, you're doing it with someone else, and they're actively watching it. They're going to learn that that is a form of survival. They're going to learn that that is okay. Oh yeah, my mom did it all her life. My dad did it. Oh yeah, sure, I'm going to do the same thing too. Maybe I need to do this to to be included and to be alive.
Speaker 1:Because if you can't trust your parents, who can you trust?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you're like worshiping. They're worshiping the ground. You walk on like you are their absolute role model. So whatever they do, they're going to mirror that.
Speaker 1:So would you say that people pleasing majority of the time comes from childhood, like all the time comes from childhood, or do you think it's a learned behavior later in life? Or what have you seen in your practice?
Speaker 2:So interesting because in my practice I've seen both Like. I've seen people pleasing come from childhood. I've also seen people pleasing start in relationships, which is so weird for some people in age. It's just like they do it because they want to belong in certain school groups, because there are bullies and you know how there are like these gangs and like oh, we're the cool girls you can't sit with us. So, like, pleasing to like be a part of that, it starts there and then it extends to oh yeah, I'm going to do it with my boyfriend so that he doesn't break up with me because I'm dating this cool guy and I don't want him to break. So I'm going to please my way into it, you know. So some actually start in relationships Like I have this particular it and she had an amazing childhood, like great parents.
Speaker 2:Her parents taught her like amazing boundaries, like say no, stand up for yourself. All the whole thing right, the perfect lessons. But then her people pleasing started. Then she started dating. That makes sense. It can start anywhere. It can start anywhere Like for me, I know I said my dad, you know, like had a conversation with me about it. But for me I would say, even if I excluded my dad. It is truly cultural. Yeah, even if my dad had said nothing, it is fully cultural.
Speaker 2:So you would have done it, no matter what I would have done it no matter what, like all my friends that are also like Indian women, are either still people pleasing or recovering people pleasers. You know there are a few people that have very few people that haven't recovered, but like they're still in that spectrum.
Speaker 1:Which makes sense and not not to like. I know, like, going back to the dating reference, that makes a lot of sense when you say that and not, I guess the example that comes to my mind to make it like I always try to, my brain works in a way like I have to come up with an example to attach onto it, to understand it. And the first thing when you said that, I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense, especially in abusive relationships, because, let's say it's a physically abusive relationship. You're going to do anything you can to not be hit right. You're going to please, you're going to, you're going to walk on eggshells, you're going to do anything you can to please that person so that you're not physically abused.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely Like for me, like it was more like emotional abuse. Yeah, so, because of emotional abuse and gaslighting, I was people pleasing because I didn't want to be gaslit, I didn't want to be said that oh, I'm crazy or you know for all these things. So I used to like change my narrative like oh my God. And the worst part is like the second. After I do it, I would feel like this, like ick, and, and then it would be too late.
Speaker 1:I would be like, oh my god it's killing me, because I'm thinking about all the people I've dated and I'm like, oh my god, I've been a people pleaser. I mean, probably the people I've dated have been like no, you haven't, because I, I will eventually stand up for myself. And it's so crazy because that's when the gaslighting is the worst, because you've, you've, please, please, please, please, please. And then all of a sudden, you're like you know what? I'm not gonna do anymore. I'm gonna start standing up for myself. And the first thing they say to you is you're not acting like yourself. Who do you think you're trying to be?
Speaker 2:Exactly and you know, I was like who's right and who's wrong in that and honestly it's not about right and wrong. It's like when you get people used to a certain thing, they're attaching your identity to whatever you got them used to, like if you've been a people pleaser and that's been like your whole identity, like for 20 years or 10 years, and then suddenly you start like having opinions, suddenly you start having you know like you start rebelling and you start like talking back. Suddenly you start having you know like you start rebelling and you start like talking back.
Speaker 1:It is going to be inconvenient for everyone. And I have a friend that actually recently started doing that to her, like with her husband, and instead of him acknowledging that she has her own identity and her own thought process, he blames me and says it's because you're hanging out with her that you're feeling this way. And she's like no, I'm feeling this way because I finally see the issues and I'm trying to communicate those issues to you and you're sitting here gaslighting me and he's still, even after she says that to his face, he'll be like no, it's not, it's because you're hanging out with her.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so funny. I get blamed all the time. I just stopped thinking personally. I get blamed all the time by husbands, by partners, like oh, yeah, you're going and seeing Meenu, like, you're talking to Meenu, like yeah, of course, like now you're able to say this, but no, no, no, like we are just showing what's already there, guys, like we are not. We can't sit here and change someone's identity. We can't sit here and change someone's personality. That shit doesn't happen like overnight. We are expressing what that person is struggling to express and they are seeing a form of personal expression through us and it's resonating with them. So they're finally like taking it into their own lives and implementing it. Like that's what happened. We can't, we're not here to change anyone, right?
Speaker 1:Right, and I'm glad you said that, because initially I took it very personal and I was like, well, I mean I'm sorry that I, you know, give you strength and I am a good friend to you, but I don't know, like I'm sorry that you know he can't see, I don't know what to say. Say it out loud, it's so funny. It is because it's like I'm sorry, I'm a good friend and telling you the truth, like, and you know, speaking of that side note, I don't think good friends are people who agree with you 100% of the time.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Like Jonna and I argue all the time, all the time We'll be, we'll literally be in text conversations and me and you will be like we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and I'm like, yeah, we, yeah, we are, because I'm not changing my mind, you're not changing yours, and that's what it is. And then that's the end of the conversation. Yeah, there's no, I hate you. You don't have my same opinions. It's cool. We realize we're not going to convince each other to change their mind, so it's just like we don't have to talk about it anymore you don't have to talk about that particular thing.
Speaker 2:There are like million things to talk about. You know, like, and you know I. And that's where I think like I'm really like, in a way, like proud of you and me because, like we're not pleasing each other. Yeah, you know, we're not agreeing each other, agreeing with each other, just because, oh yeah, I want to be liked by her.
Speaker 1:Like you know none of that that you know what, and that's what the difference is is I have a safety in our friendship to where I know I can show up to be myself 100% of the time, and I know that you're not going to run away from this friendship, because I don't do everything you say, agree with everything you do, and I think that's kind of what it comes down to is how safe do you feel in a relationship to be able to show up as you?
Speaker 2:That is so so, so true. Like we're going to talk about, like just a very quick detour in this yes, we're going to come back to people pleasing, but we're also going to talk about really quickly, if you don't mind, like how to set a safe space, right, yeah, and the best way, like if you're a friend, you're a father, you're a mother, you're you know, any form like of relationship that you have. You're listening to this If you love someone and you want to be there for someone, be there for them, just be there for them. Don't inflict your opinions, don't inflict your ideologies. Don't say if you don't do this, you know I'm gonna walk away. Like that, that form of love is like very conditional. You're saying you have to agree with me, only if you agree with me, then you belong in my friendship, or you know you, we belong together. Like that's so conditional, that's very like constricted. That's not a very expansive way of living or thinking.
Speaker 2:Right, how do you hold space and you know it's so interesting because me and my partner were talking about it a few days ago how to hold space is to truly give the stage to someone. And what does it mean to truly give the stage to someone. Let's say, if somebody has an issue, they want to come talk to you. You say, okay, the stage is yours, take the stage right. So they talk to you. They talk your ear off, they tell you all their concerns. You are not interrupting, you are not inflicting your judgments, you are not inflicting your opinions.
Speaker 2:And then, after they're done talking, be a good person and ask do you want advice or do you just want me to hold space? Yep, if they say you know, I just wanted to vent, I just wanted someone to listen to it and hold space, then say, okay, I'm here for you, I love you and I'm here whenever you need and that's the most like unconditional form of you know, reassuring safety, because we're talking about safety here, which is connected to people pleasing. That's how you really hold space. And then if they say you know I'm open for feedback, like I'm open for advice or guidance, then yeah, go for it, give your opinion, you know. And but again, remember, you're not you're, you're not giving your opinion so that they agree with you all the time. Right, like your opinion, because they ask for your opinion and they can also disagree, they can also go back and think about it. They don't have to agree with you. This is not an ego trip or a power trip.
Speaker 1:I agree 100 percent Everything you just said, because like and I think it's also good to know, like, which friends that you can go to invent to like there's friends like, if I want someone to agree with me, I'll go talk to them because I know they're going to agree with everything I say. Then there's friends that I know that I can go to if I need to know, like true, real advice that's not just going to sit there and agree with me. For example, if you're breaking up with someone and you know you have those friends that you can go to and they're going to be like, screw him, he was terrible. And then you have the friends that you can go to, that go. Can I be real honest with you? You know, in this situation I saw the things that you did here that probably could ruin that relationship and maybe that's something you want to look at, to go into into the next relationship.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and I think that is a good friend. I think a solid friend.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the kind of friends I want, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, absolutely no-transcript. People pleasing will start reducing because they feel like, oh yeah, this is so safe, like I can just be myself with this person, I can always be there, I know she's always going to be there, not abandoned me, and you know, that's what happens, that's the magic. That's when the magic starts happening in relationships.
Speaker 1:I agree. And now just kind of taking it back to people pleasing a little bit, like we mentioned it a little bit earlier on the beginning of the episode where we talked about how, like you're kind of abandoning yourself and it's kind of tapping into your self-identity, how would you explain to someone, like when you've done people pleasing for so many years, how that is tapping into their self-identity and then how it's like it can, I guess, be a negative impact sometimes on your self-identity and your self-worth, like how I guess I'm asking how does people pleasing connect with your identity and how can you kind of come out of that? Yeah, how does people pleasing connect with your identity and how can you kind of come out of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the people pleasing connects with your identity in a way of like, oh, I'm just a person that is nice. Right, it starts like that yeah, I'm just a nice person, I don't like to disagree, I don't like to be the odd one out, like I don't like conflict. Exactly, I don't like conflict. And also another thing that I've heard Bennett like translates to identities it's like I just want to make everyone comfortable. That's a big. I just want to make sure everyone feels at home with me and in my space and I just want to make sure everyone is heard and seen. Sure, but at what expense? Right, so that becomes that identity. And now, how do you detach from that identity? Is I think you have to look at your life and ask yourself am I happy with who I am? Do I actually have my own beliefs? Do I actually have my own opinions, my own take on things, and am I following that? Am I actually living through that or am I? Is it just like buried underneath somewhere and it's not even like coming out? So at the end of the day, I think it like comes down to how am I? How's my relationship with myself? How's my relationship with my friends? Am I being an honest person? Right, can I be honest? Am I being honest here? Am I being honest outside? And if that's like, uh, I don't know, not all the time then you gotta like check it out and ask, like, how is that affecting you further? Right, like, are you suppressing more, you know? Are you hiding things like now? Are you like faking it? Are you faking the friendship? Are you faking relationship Because you have fear of abandonment? So how is that impacting in other areas? Right?
Speaker 2:So I think what helps is to like pause and reflect and ask yourself, maybe like once a month, maybe once every few months, ask yourself am I happy with myself? Am I being true to myself? Am I being true to my relationships and friendships? And if you say no, I'm not being true, I'm trying to fit in, I'm trying to make sure they think this of me. They think that a lot of people this is where it gets caught Like I have heard of some people they really care about how they're being perceived, which is also people pleasing. Yeah, because why do you care about how you're being perceived Like? Why is that that important? Yeah, because why do you care about how you're being perceived Like? Why is that that important? Yeah, because what that tells me is, you don't perceive yourself in a correct manner.
Speaker 1:And I'm glad you said that, because, also, when you're so self-obsessed with how you look physically to other people and I'm not saying that we shouldn't care to a certain degree, because I think we all are going to care to a certain degree but there is a level that some people like I have a friend that takes it to the extreme. She literally gets down on herself because she doesn't look like me or look like someone else or look like this or look like that, and I'm like you have to stop doing that, because you are your own person and people love you for you, but it comes across that you don't love yourself it really does and it's like, and you can actually tell when someone is being fake and when I say fake I mean people pleasing, because people pleasing is actually fake, because when you're trying to, I know this is gonna, you know, kind of like sting if you're doing it.
Speaker 2:But it's like if you're a people pleaser, you's like if you're a people pleaser, you're a manipulator. You're a manipulator because you're not being yourself, you're not being your authentic self. So you're painting a picture to the other person that you're this like quote unquote like nice girl and nice guy and making them believe in a version of you that is probably not even true to yourself. That makes sense, you know. So it's kind of yes, it's a trauma response. I'm not denying the trauma on why you're a people pleaser when it started, how you did it to not be abandoned. I'm not denying any of those experiences you've had. But it's also manipulation, is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know that makes sense because, like I know, manipulation has this negative connotation and it's and we're not saying you're intentionally manipulating someone else. You can subconsciously be manipulating and not realizing it. Same as, for example, if you enter a relationship and you're doing all these things that you typically wouldn't do out of people pleasing traits, for example for a female, washing the dishes for a guy you know, cleaning their house, playing wifey, before y'all are in a relationship and you're doing all these things to get them to like you and you're trying to please, even though you don't really want to do it. Yeah, that is a form of manipulation because you're trying to do something to get them to like a version of yourself that you're not going to be a hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. So another way to like I know this is this is gonna be a little bit sidetracked but another way to actually like, dissolve. It is like and I've started doing this, which is like amazing, do I? Am I doing this Because I really want to do it, or am I doing this to fit in? Like just that one inquiry, like just that one question, like, before you say yes to somebody, whether it's a trip, whether it's a favor, whether it's all loaning someone money, like whatever it is, whether it's your children, your sister, your brother, like whoever it is asking that question, like, like, am I doing it because it feels good to me or am I doing it so that they like me? Because if you're doing it so that they like you, then it's not an integrity completely with who you are.
Speaker 2:Now, I am not denying that everybody at some point wants to be liked and wants to be seen and wants to be heard. Like that's different. But if it goes overboard and you keep continually repeating the same pattern to be liked, to be liked then you're not in integrity with yourself, you don't. So now it's time to do some self-exploration and find out who. Who am I Right I want? What do I believe in? Why do I feel so disconnected with myself? Why do I feel other people are not respecting me? Duh Answer is you're not respecting yourself because you're people pleasing, so you're not. You're abandoning your needs. So now what's happened is coming back to energy for a little second is you're attracting similar experiences because that's the energy you're embodying.
Speaker 1:Right, that makes sense and something you taught me and something that you know the more I get into my faith, the more I'm learning. Like you're going to keep getting the same thing put in in your path until, like you know, like, oh, for example good example I pray for patients a lot and I need to quit. My aunts told me to quit because I get a lot of things in my life that force me to have patience and I'm literally at my wits end sometimes and I'm like, and I'm like remember, Donna, you asked for this? Yeah, that's actually. You literally asked God and the universe to give you more patience. So they have to put things in your life.
Speaker 1:And for another example, I was picking men that were emotionally unavailable, because I was emotionally unavailable, putting that energy out there and I kept doing it over and over. But then the last guy I dated, I just had realized, like in two months versus two years. So I'm very proud of myself for that to be like you know what. You're a great guy. This, just this, isn't just what I'm wanting. So we're good, let's just move on. Because it was the same person in repeat fat pattern, because it just kept, because it is the lesson that I had to learn and I kept wanting to change it and I kept saying why do I keep doing this? I need to change this, I need to change this.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly so. It's like again, guys, like coming back to it, like when you're a people pleaser, it's so easy to get resentful with other people. It's so easy because you know that there are sacrifices going on, like you're sacrificing your own needs. So you're thinking, oh my God, I'm doing all this, I'm giving up my values and I'm giving up my beliefs for you.
Speaker 1:You're not doing anything.
Speaker 2:You're not doing anything and you're not even appreciating it and you're not even acknowledging it. Well, did that person ask you to give up your values and beliefs, or did that person ask you to be yourself, like you know again? Like this is where, like, please be accountable for your own stuff. Like it's easy to like say, oh yeah, they're a narcissist and they took advantage of me, and it's so easy to like point fingers, but like, you played a role in this too.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that's, I think, the hardest thing for people to do and I think, humans in general. No one wants to look at themselves or look in the mirror, but I've had hard conversations with friends and even to myself before, like when we've had sessions that it's like what, like okay, for example, the guys that I dated and it just kept happening and I was upset and she was, and I remember you being like okay, but at some point you have to acknowledge that you allowed that behavior for this long.
Speaker 2:So that's my role in it.
Speaker 1:I allowed it, I continue to to try to change someone else to the version that I wanted them to be, and that's a form of manipulation and people pleasing, and that's the role I played and that's called accountability.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I mean you're taking accountability now but, like you know, you got to start like looking at that stuff, like as soon as you start doing it, like you got to start getting conscious, you got to start asking why am I making these choices, why am I doing this thing? If you're feeling misaligned, don't wait for six months. Ask why am I feeling misaligned right now with myself? Like where am I feeling detached Right? Like those are really good, like questions, like inquiries that you need to constantly ask yourself. So you don't fall into the trap Like for me. I will tell you what happened. Like it cost me my whole life. People-pleasing cost me my whole life. People-pleasing cost me my whole life. So for me, I had no choice but to be like if I want to be perceived differently, if I want to perceive myself differently, if I actually want to respect myself, I need to stop doing it. At one point it became a relationship with myself. Nothing about anyone else mattered, how I saw myself and I was getting the ick and I'm like I just don't want to.
Speaker 2:I don't want to do that, right? The truth is, guys, it's like possible. You just, you just have to decide, you just have to decide. It's not that hard right decide. You guys are thinking, oh, all my life I've done this. How can I not do this? Uh, I snapped out of it when I had done it for 30 years. I'm sure you can Like you know the past four years of not people pleasing. So if I can do it and I'm alive and I'm thriving, you can do it and you'll be alive too.
Speaker 1:I have two more questions about the people pleasing and then I want to kind of transition into like how we can heal from it. So the two questions that I have for the people pleasing are why do people put others needs above their own? I know we kind of touched on that a little bit from like abandonment and stuff like that, but I was going to see if you had any like, if you knew any other reasons why people would put someone else's needs above their own. And a second part of that is is do people do that? Is it more a control thing, an approval thing, out of fear, or they just want to avoid, to avoid conflict?
Speaker 2:yeah. So it's like all of the above, so okay. Another reason why, like people put and I'm so sorry, like I'm not trying to trigger anyone another reason why people put somebody's needs above them all the time like they don't, I mean their needs above them, their own selves is that they want to be perceived as very selfless. They want to be perceived as oh, I'm such a giver, I'm such a good person. They really care about that perception. They're very attached to that identity, so they want to continually maintain that image. Are they givers? Are they good people? Sure, but again, you have to ask yourself how much am I doing and at what cost am I doing?
Speaker 1:And no one's 100% of something all the time. So why would you be 100% of a people, pleaser, all the time?
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's why I'm saying it's not authentic. There are some people that are naturally, naturally givers. You're a giver, I know I'm a giver, but naturally givers, Automatically when somebody's bringing up a situation, we want to help them, we want to fix it. Like we're fixers, we're problem solvers. That's just. You know how John is wired. I'm wired Like I know that, but like we're not going to do it all the time. Like you know, if we don't feel up to it, we're going to be like uh no, I'm not, I don't have the energy for that, I don't have bandwidth for that, I'm sorry, Like I can't do it right now. Like you know, we're able to do that and that's authentic because that's that, that that feels good, because it's not there all the time. Like you said, when it's happening all the time, it's out of integrity.
Speaker 1:You want to know how. I know that you're also not a people pleaser anymore. If you were, you would accept so many clients all the time because you in your mind would be like I have to help every single one of them, I want to help every single one of them, but you don't do that. You set a limit on how many people you see a month to make the boundaries, to give yourself space, and that obviously you're pleasing your customers. But I'm just saying like if you were like still in that people pleasing mind before you healed, you'd probably be seeing 20 to 100 clients a day.
Speaker 2:Easily. I know therapists, I know coaches that do like seven a day and I'm like, wait a minute, how are you doing that? Like that's insane. That's like an hour hour and a half per client and it's like very heavy, like I don't see more than like four a day. I'm actually going to downsize to like three a day because, like of the amount of energy and time that like goes on and the prep and everything, it's like three a day is like my sweet spot. But you're absolutely right, like it's like I used to burn myself to the ground.
Speaker 1:And this is hard to say no.
Speaker 2:when you want to help somebody, so hard to say no. And then it's so funny you say this because, like recently, two months ago, I was triggered by a client.
Speaker 1:So funny I'm saying, I just smiled really big.
Speaker 2:I was triggered by a client because she was like well, what about the evening you can? Can you take me on in the evening at like seven, because I get done at like six? Like why can't you take me on in the evening for an emergency session? Like every week I'm like wait, first of all, I don't work at seven, I'm done at six. So for me to take you on at seven and go till 8 8, 30, that would like take away my whole evening, right, and I'm not trying to work like that much, you know. And I I told her, you know, maybe we should, maybe you should, look at other options, like other other availabilities, other coaches, like that is not a time I'm able to do and and I also said, I've also like made a you know, promise to myself that I'm not going to get burnt out and if I do that, I don't think I can be a good coach for you. I don't think I can help you in a way that I can.
Speaker 1:Because you're going to be resentful, because you're going to be sitting in that session going. I don't want to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then she was like kind of like pushing it right. She was like, oh, why can't you like you know, like she was she? And so this is again. Guys, what I'm trying to say is givers have to set limits, because takers do not know how to. Right, if you're a giver, stop getting bitter, stop being resentful, stop feeling like, oh, people should understand me, naturally, no, me, naturally, no, no. You have to set boundaries, and I think that's the next thing that we want.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, so, transitioning into the healing portion, I wanted to ask you if you feel like there's like an order to it because, like, do you feel like you should first be aware that you're a people pleaser and try to heal from wherever it's coming from whether that be childhood relationships, wherever and then the other two portions of like healing I guess in that fashions is setting boundaries and then also learning to prioritize yourself. Is that, do you think there's an order in that, or do you think it all comes together?
Speaker 2:so I think awareness like for me I'm always going to say awareness is number one right so first you have to like if you're listening to this and you're like nodding and clapping and you know, if you're a people pleaser, congratulations, because you have become aware, which is the first step in healing, If you cannot heal anything unless you're aware that it's going on with you. So if you're aware and you want to change it, you're already. You're already ahead of like many people, Right, no-transcript realized it and you know it's actually kind of liberating. I actually feel more free and I realized I was unconsciously people pleasing you guys and you know I don't want to do that anymore because I just don't think it's fair to you, I don't think it's fair to me and I still think we can have all these experiences Right. So I started doing things like that where I didn't give people that shock of like suddenly, like changing and not communicating, and they're like what's wrong?
Speaker 1:You're like no, let me explain. I'm not just going to ghost you here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I am. I'm a very good communicator, like. So I, you know, communicate to my close friends about like transitions and changes that like happened in my life. So for me that was like more of a supportive environment where it felt, okay, this is like great. Like you know, I'm able to communicate and get this. If they had said, no, we'd rather you come with us, you know I'm able to communicate and get this. If they had said, no, we'd rather you come with us, you know no, we'd rather you join us.
Speaker 2:Like, I don't know what you're talking about, you're not a people pleaser, you're wrong. If they did something like that, I would immediately be like no, I think you're used to that version of me, I think you're comfortable with that version of me, and I've done enough self-reflection that I know that I've been a people pleaser. Thank you, but no, thank you, you know. So, again, having those boundaries right. And how does that come? It doesn't come when you don't have awareness. Like, for example, if you don't know who you are, everybody will tell you who you are. Yes, they will. So you've got to like the first step in the process. You've got to ask yourself who am I? How am I showing up in relationships and friendships, because once you owned it, then nobody can use it against you.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, and I'm firsthand, I will agree to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would say like that's like the transition, like did I miss something?
Speaker 1:No, no, no. So that makes sense. And then, as far as like the boundaries, like, I know that's how you do that, for like, your example is like you, you communicate well and you express yourself well instead of like just ghosting someone. What are some other ways people can start establishing some boundaries? Maybe it's slowly, once they've identified that they're a people pleaser and they're trying to, then you know obviously heal, why they're a people pleaser, like whether that be through coaching therapy, whatnot. Then you know obviously heal, why there are people pleaser, like whether that be through coaching therapy, whatnot. Then how did they start establishing those boundaries Like? Or would you give different examples of how someone could do that? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like this is really interesting because, like when I was working with one of my coaches like many years ago, um, when and she was like telling me just say no, just say no. And I'm going to tell you guys it's not that simple, right. So there is like a transitionary process and what that looked like for me and you can take away from this is like saying no and saying why I'm saying no. That was helpful in the transitionary phase. You don't have to say why all the time, but you're transitioning from becoming a people pleaser to like standing on your own two feet and not abandoning your own needs. So maybe like saying, hey, I can make it today because I'm like really exhausted and I, if I don't sleep, I'm going to get like bitter tomorrow. I can't work tomorrow, like I'm just. I just need that, you know. Just a little bit explaining again, not explaining to people, please explaining to make the transition easier for you.
Speaker 1:And once you've gotten more comfortable, you're saying that the next time you could say hey, I just don't feel like it tonight, Thank you. Thank you for the invite.
Speaker 2:Because, remember, your body's trying to achieve safety. So when your body's trying to achieve safety, it can go from oh yeah, like I'm like people pleasing OK, I'm safe, I'm not abandoned to like no, it can't go to like safe to unsafe right away. So you have to have a transition process so your body can be like OK, you know what I'm like, explain myself. I'm stepping into safety by saying no.
Speaker 1:That makes sense, and then after you've set the boundaries and kind of gotten more used to that which, again, it's not going to happen overnight, it's going to take time and everyone's different has a different timeline. It may take you a week, it may take you a year, it may take you 10 years. Everyone's timeline is different, so don't compare your journey to someone else. But then I think that a part of that healing is then prioritizing yourself, like learning to put yourself first without feeling selfish, and doing things that just kind of make you feel better about yourself. So would you have some examples of how because I think that's why people feel uncomfortable transitioning from people pleasing to not people pleasing because you start feeling selfish or guilty internally. So how do you start prioritizing your own needs and then also help negate that guilt and selfish feeling?
Speaker 2:I think you have to ask. I think this is where I think you really check in and ask, like about the resentment and the bitterness that comes with it.
Speaker 2:And then ask yourself, like if you did something for yourself first and then poured from a full cup, are you still going to feel that bitterness or resentment? Because the one thing you're going to start seeing a big change immediately is you no longer are going to hate yourself. You're actually going to start respecting yourself, and when you respect yourself, you feel happier, you feel better, you feel better about your identity, you feel better about you as a human. And then that happens, you're going to feel like, oh my God, this is so worth it, like what I'm feeling and the connection that I feel with myself is like so worth it. So it's safe for me to be quote unquote selfish. And again ask yourself, what does selfish mean to you? Because to everyone it is different and it doesn't have one standard meaning. So you may associate something to being selfish, but in reality it might just be self-care, it might just be self-love right so I want you to explore that and ask, like why do I think this is selfish?
Speaker 2:and then also ask, like how old is this belief? Like since when have I been having this belief that this is selfish? And then, where did I learn that this is selfish? That's when the parenting figures come, or ex-boyfriends come. Like where did I learn that telling my truth or saying no is selfish? And then asking is that ultimately true? The person that I learned from, do I want to have their life? Do I want to have the life that they're living, or do I resent the life that they're living? And I want to have a better life? Right, because the problem is you've learned it from someone and unconsciously, you're idealizing that person. Then, in reality, you may not even want to have their life.
Speaker 1:Right. I remember when you first told me that, I was like you know, that's some really good advice. I was just like, because that makes a lot of sense. Like I think you not in just this scenario, but I think we were talking about like friends and giving advice, and you're like never take advice from someone's life that you do not want. And I was like, well damn, that makes a lot of sense Because a lot of people's got a lot of opinions and I don't necessarily want to live the way they live. So why would I take the advice? Because obviously they're following their own advice.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, exactly, and this is the same thing, right? It's like you look at someone, you ask where you mirror that behavior from, and if they're not your role model, then what are you doing?
Speaker 1:It's like no, it made. It made a lot of sense when you said it, because I was just like you know, sometimes you just need it to be said in a certain way that you can understand it. And it's like that, like this podcast is not going to click for some people. Some people are going to be like, yeah, I've tried all that, it doesn't work for me. And then there's going to be some people that listen to it and go why have I never thought about that before?
Speaker 2:And then you know it's so funny, I saw somebody do this like it's the best thing and I, I like, even asked him I said can I use this, you know, for myself and can I use this for my? And he's like, yeah, um, he would do this like anytime I asked a question. He would close his eyes and he would be like, please give me a few seconds and then answer with clarity, instead of saying yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure, because that's a very like people pleaser thing. Right, we immediately agree we have to. If we don't, we're like oh my God, they're getting uncomfortable. Okay, they're waiting. No, no, no. Like just pause and sit with your body and ask just for like 20 seconds. How does that feel? Like and then give them an answer Like that will be so different from when you give them an answer right away.
Speaker 1:Well, not just even about the people pleasing, but I've heard that before too, and that's more of an actual um. You're listening to understand versus listening to hear someone talk, and, like that moment of pausing, you're actually sitting there reflecting on what they said so that you can then give them an accurate statement, because sometimes we do just pop off at the mouth and then we're like, oh, that just came out real raw. That's not what I was trying to say so true.
Speaker 2:And I think this is also where you say like listening to respond and not listening to react. Yep, because reaction is like quick response takes time. Yeah, I agree. And you know everybody has 20 seconds to spare when you're gathering your thoughts, because now they know that you've answered with intention. Like when you've said yes, they know that you really mean it Yep, I agree. And when you've said no, they also know that you've really meant it. Like what I've started doing recently is like when people ask me something, I've started like saying can I let you know in a few days? Yeah, and you know there is a momentary discomfort I'm not going to lie because of a formal being, a former people pleaser but then I'm also like you know this is good, because now they're also going to know that I've taken time to think about it and when I get back with my answer, they know that I'm not pleasing them Right? They know that I've thought about it and I know I've thought about it, I've given myself grace and time, so I know I'm an integrity.
Speaker 1:I agree with you. Now, guys out there that do this, I have a couple of friends that do this and they do it as a how do I put this? They already know they're going to say no. They do it to quote, unquote please you for a couple of days to make them think that they might give in to you. So do this with intention, like anything that we do in life.
Speaker 1:I think if we're just intentional about it, I think that truly makes someone come off very authentically yourself, just to move in integrity, to move in intention. Because when we are people pleasing, when we are doing all these things and we're not being who we are, I think people know that. I think your personality comes across as like you just have, like you said, you feel it there's an eek. Now, like you said, takers are going to take it. They don't care if they feel like your personality is coming off different, whatever, they're just going to take and take and take, but someone who is truly your friend and whatnot, it's going to feel not genuine and there's going to be a disconnect in that friendship relationship, whatever.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely Like. I've even like, like I do this with friends with, just like crazy I know it might sound like high school, actually, no, it's actually, it's actually quite mature. I'll tell you what I do. Do this with, uh, close friends, best friends, and I'll always be like you have to be honest with me. This is a, this is. It's not a criteria, it's not conditional, but this is, this is what I really really need and this is what I really appreciate.
Speaker 2:Like, if I'm doing something to offend you or if you don't like something about something you, you have to come to me and like, tell me, talk to me about it and we talk about it like adults. You cannot for me. The greatest betrayal for me is like my close friends or best friends talking behind my back, yeah, and saying shit about me behind my back, and I'm just like no, you don't, you don't have to people, please me in my face and go behind my back, like you can. I'm actually a safe space. You can actually like, tell me, like what you think, or like what's coming up for you, and we can actually navigate it. So full circle coming back is is that a? Is that a preventative measure for people policing. I think once you establish safe spaces and if you can be a safe space and you can be a good communicator, like this is not taught in school. Guys like how to communicate, it's not taught.
Speaker 2:No it's not. You can be a good communicator, you can have a rich relationships, you can have rich friendships, you can have rich everything, but you should want to make that change. Right, I agree, talked about this before starting the podcast. Like you should want to make that change. You should want to not self-abandon, you should want to not be a people pleaser, otherwise, all of this is going to go in your head.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think there's a lot of people out there because you know, I had several people reach out to me and ask us to do this podcast and I think that people want to do it. I think it's more of a. It's an uncomfortable thing. Anytime you're changing your personality. After doing it for 30 years or for me, for 37 years you're kind of set in that way, like it's just more of a pattern and you're comfortable doing it. So it's really uncomfortable. Diving into why you do something, or to reach out to someone and say, hey, can you coach me? It's very uncomfortable to do that because then you have to live through things that you may not want to relive. But at the end of the day, if you truly want to change those behaviors, you're going to have to do something different. That's not comfortable for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, like Albert Einstein said that, right, it's like doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome as insanity. So it's like if you're continually people pleasing but you expect other people to have more compassion for you and and them, them hold space for you and them understand you. Oh, I'm sorry, Like you're not changing anything, Like you're, you're just expecting others to do things for you because you don't like taking accountability.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean it's hard Like I've. I've I've talked to friends about it. You know where they're doing the same thing and like that they come to me and that they want advice. I'm like, look, I'm going to, I'm going to be really real with you right now. This has been going on for as long as I've known you and I give you advice every time you ask for it. And I'm not telling you I'm not a therapist, I'm not whatever. I'm just one of your very close friends that cares about you. And if you want a different outcome, you're going to have to do something different. I mean, it sounds so simple when you say it out loud, but it's real Like when you're saying it to someone who's not ready to hear it, it's just falling on deaf ears.
Speaker 2:This doesn't hit. Yeah, it just doesn't hit. And I think again, this is where this is not about. You know, people pleasing, but it's like I truly believe, like not giving advice until someone asks, and I hate when somebody gives me advice when I don't ask.
Speaker 1:I hate. I know I'm really bad about it. I gotta, I gotta get better at that. I'm like well, I think, no, jonna, no like I.
Speaker 2:I literally was, I had, I literally had to tell um another friend that you need to stop yucking on my yum. I literally had to have a conversation. I, I literally had to say I didn't ask for your opinion, I didn't ask for your advice. You need to stop yucking on my um. If I'm sharing an experience and I like it and you have an opinion, you don't have to be a bitch. Remember what Buddha said if you don't have anything nice to say, you can be quiet. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not a bitch. When I give advice, I do. I do always preface things with like hey, like you definitely don't have to take what I'm saying as the end all be all, because I'm not a perfect person, but from the outside perspective, looking in, because a lot of times I'm really good at staying neutral. Even, for example, if one of my best girlfriends is married and I am not friends with the husband, I'm pretty good at staying neutral and going hey, in this story that you're telling me, I can kind of see where he would get upset about this. And of course, some of my friends do not like that. They're like, excuse me, you're my friend, I am your friend.
Speaker 2:You know. So true Interesting point before we wrap up like one of my like friends was, you know, complaining about her husband and she was like, oh, he doesn't do this and he doesn't like do that. And then I was asking her like okay, if he's telling you to do something and you don't want to do it? Then I was asking her like okay, if he's telling you to do something and you don't want to do it, then why are you doing it? And then having resentment that he's not reciprocating your energy and your love, like why would you in the first place do that when you don't feel like doing it right? And this is where I say like please, please, take accountability. It's not cute, it's not romantic, it's not sweet, sorry, it's just not. It's just not because it's not sustainable.
Speaker 1:I agree. No, I appreciate you doing this podcast with me. I think that was wonderful advice that you gave. So I hope everyone listening like truly, just take some time, takes that pause, takes that 20 second pause to just reflect after listening versus you know. But, and personally, if, if it is deep-rooted and it is from a childhood trauma and everything, I again advocate for seeking out help, whether that be through a life coach like me and you, or whether that be through traditional therapy, like I, truly think that when it comes to childhood trauma and it's so rooted because I've been through it and I've, you know, I went through coaching with me and you we don't realize it. There's a lot of things that it's kind of hard to self-help your way out of.
Speaker 2:It is. It is because your own mind is not going to allow you to go that deep, because when you go that deep it's painful. So your own mind is actually going to protect you from feeling pain. Mind is actually going to protect you from feeling pain. That's why people are not able to, like, go deeper and do the work. That's why we're here, that's why we're coaches, that's where they're a therapist like, because we can help you see parts of yourself that you're unable to do.
Speaker 1:Right, I agree, so until next time, guys. Thank you for listening. Bye, bye guys. Thank you you.
